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@Grandma b They won’t means test it if they want to make savings.  Means testing is too expensive to administer.  That’s why Reeves opted for the simplest method of ‘means testing’ the winter fuel payment, by aligning it to pension credit - no admin fees, the level is already set.

@Zainab I think they will means test it, easiest way for them too.

@darinfan Good points!

@Zainab They're not going to say people don't get PIP if they can work, because doing so may well mean that they then CAN'T work because they can't afford to, which is entirely against their own plan of encouraging the disabled to be employed.   That would make no sense at all.  Actually, being in work is likely to cost disabled people more than staying at home, due to possible taxi fares to get there etc.   That doesn't mean that they might not means test PIP in some way, so that the richest people can't get it, but the admin cost for that will probably be more than any savings it will generate, as I doubt many people on the highest wages actually bother with going through the hoops to get PIP.  The truth is that DLA and then PIP have remained since the 1990s without actually being changed much.  If there was a better system, someone would have come up with it by now. 

At the moment, Labour seem to have lots of aims with regards to getting people back to work, but no real information on how, other than supporting those who go back to work.  We know they are sticking to the work capability assessment changes that were annoucned by the Tories, but we know nothing else.  My hunch is that they're more likely to change UC than PIP - UC is, after all, a benefit for people out of work, whereas PIP isn't.  Even then, they can't do much other than perhaps lowering the work allowance - but if they do that, it will discourage the disabled from working.  On the other hand, they could do a less severe tapering for disabled people in work to actually encourage us back to work - but that's not going to cut the bill either.  Theoretically, they could scrap LCW and/or LCWRA, but it would be almost impossible for that to be imposed upon people already on the benefit - especially when we are getting the transitional payment as we move from ESA.  

So what does that leave other than actually making it easier for the ill and disabled to go back to work?  And there's nothing wrong with that, if it's done in the right way, and by actually putting support in place.  But alot has to be done before that's actually going to work.  Like many disabled, I don't drive and can't travel on public transport - and yet, despite living in a city centre, I can't even get a taxi at certain times of day because there aren't enough.   Those living in London have to contend with the London underground.  Yes, there are lifts in some stations, but you have to walk a couple of miles (it seems) to reach them.   Many workplace don't have a disabled toilet.  The country as a whole has absolutely no understanding that just because you're not in a wheelchair doesn't mean you can stand for more than a few minutes.  There are still trains without any meaningful disability access.  Buses have space for one wheelchair or scooter if you're lucky.  All of that type of thing has to be dealt with before anything that Liz Kendall comes up with can be implemented in any meaningful way.

@Zainab WELL THERES  A STATEMENT. We WANT to make the disabled work.   (WANT)!  SO just one Example of disabled person working . Goes in every day regardless of how there feeling, or the going to be to much.so lift into work write outside the office, worked for this company for 12years. Normal office person left to do management work, with out training, or management pay, but still has own work to complete , even carried multiple  key as well. This person has to have treatment every 3months for there conditions, company not happy with that but needs must so had to work a Saturday  as overtime to make up there hours, then told no overtime now what go in half hour earlier  and bank the hours to cover treatment, that didn't work. Next use holidays for treatment  but if that's the only way of keeping job and treatment just do it, but then all this back and forth ups and downs,  they had a warning about time off even though they had worked the hours, then a written warning as the company still not happy said person got to go for a major operation  in formed all those that needed to no , several phone calls whilst of sick ho yes and a visit from manager  and occupational health  just landed on the door step, was event away as not well enough to be interrogated,  return to work need a meeting which was attended  4 plus person being screened in what was a Broom cupboard conclusion of meeting they where going to have to let them go as they couldn't condone  them have in the time of  12YEARSOF DEDICATED WORK Flushed down the loo,  to keep every one happy. They where mortified  as they actually loved there job but was not allowed to do it. Said persons had 4 Autoimmune desieseas  and was still willing to work. All this tobe thrown out by our dedicated 

@Grandma b It’s an extra cost benefit so the threshold would need to be set pretty high - possibly in line with that of child benefit. 

@Hazel Most pensioners don’t qualify for PIP anyway unless they claimed it before state pension age.  It would be attendance allowance they are claiming.

@Hazel if it becomes mean tested thats me that will loose it. I have a small private pension.

@coolday So basically bringing back the lower rate of incapacity/LCW which a previous Tory government scrapped - only it wouldn't be means tested. For me personally, this would boost my UC, but it would be disastrous for most if it replaced PIP.

@coolday

@coolday The problem is the continued uncertainty and people not being informed or included properly in any of the discussions. They talk about consulting disabled people but they mean disabled organisations. 

PIP is already not means tested. I may be misunderstanding you but you may mean ESA/UC. PIP is not part of UC and operates completely separately from any employment. Many disabled people claiming PIP do work...some would potentially lose their jobs if PIP was removed.

When Cameron talked about getting disabled people into work, I lost my job through austerity cuts. My whole service closed down. I remember thinking how ironic it was that the PM said he wanted disabled people in work, yet in reality, those opportunities disappeared. It's not easy to get and keep work as a disabled person - often contracts are short term or temporary - but there's still no real interest in changing the employment system and structure to prevent this. 

@coolday Sounds like DLA/SDA. The amount of money they spend just to reinvent the wheel and keep the gutter press readers hating us! In my case it will cost them more because despite my having  lifelong conditions from birth that even the DWP admit are bad enough for SG my family are so utterly  Tory that once all the scrounger rhetoric started they believed everything and first tuned me out then disowned me

@Anon Which is ironic because their rhetoric means our families and communities have abandoned us. My mother said "You are Social Services problem". She's been trying to get me put in a home since the day I was born

@Elizabeth Vidler True shortage of jobs they should concentrate on 18 to 24s and fill the jobs with them as they are the future and most important

@Elizabeth Vidler The government don’t really expect the disabled and mentally ill to get jobs that don’t exist, they expect us to just not claim benefits and live off whatever we can get from family members.

@Rumtruffle I really do think that is what they will do. it will be the easiest way for them and a lot will not be able to get it if they do that.They will save in having to do reassessments that way too.

@Anon Then fund the NHS adequately.  Many areas are no longer covered that support disabilities.  So PIP is used for that.  If they cut PIP it will just create another problem for them. 

@coolday Love the way that all these policy makers talk about "getting back into work" as though those of us who have never been well enough to work through complex medical needs that no-one in the job market wants to take on. Even my own family didn't want me around and employers are no more keen and despite getting support to take a degree there was no way of doing a job. T

@Anon As if they don't know the NHS has no money - yes that's the way I'm reading it too; families and the NHS should cope and of course they can bring in assisted dying....

@AMBER Honestly, I think that Labour will straight up abolish PIP, no vouchers, no replacements. I’ve already had problems with my new Labour MP trying to communicate how vital PIP is, what it’s for and that it isn’t an unemployment benefit. The MP is basically “isn’t that what the NHS should do anyway?”

@Maxie

@Dez Mel Stride commenting on vulnerable people losing their winter fuel allowance mere months after misrepresenting disabled people in the mass media, for which he still has made no apology. 

@Anon Yes. I think so. 

@Anon I think you are absolutely right. Their sycophants don't know what to say now and/or are making excuses for them.

@Paul S in Hull Thing is, this Labour government is more right-wing than the previous Tory government, yet Labour “get away” with it as the media who supports Labour refuse to ever criticise or call out their party for their abuses of the disabled and vulnerable.

@Anon Anon, you are so cynical about Labour. I have to say, sadly, you are probably right!

@Anon I remember a few years ago a guy in one of our groups who had severe mental health issues Got zero points at the assessment because he said he wanted to work and was capable of it because part of his problem was he had zero insight into how ill he was or that he needed meds and why he had been sectioned so often.

@Anon This is how out of touch and deluded this lot really are. Over 50s have a very high probability of never working again unless they like driving vans. We no longer have a viable modern economy to accommodate current population growth, and their going to blame the unemployed, sick and disabled for their own incompetence. Having work jobsworths visiting psych wards, really is a new low. 

@STOKO That will kill people. No one seriously ill enough to have been sectioned is going to be able to fulfil benefits conditionality. 

@STOKO Yes, it appears Kendall thinks a visit from a job coach and a lesson in "CV Writing" is just what these patients need to recover permanently and instantly be able to find and keep a suitable job. 

@Diceman24 I totally agree, I too have an incurable neurological condition and decided long ago if I couldn’t do anything about something there is nothing to gain even thinking about it and much to lose in increased anxiety. As you say que sera sera.

@jan This wouldn't happen- working does not mean there's a reduced need for costs to be covered by payments to cover where it is needed.

@AJ I think they will do something different with it.Because people are having to have carers to help them with every thing.Or some things .Which they need.But then other people say they go out to work full time and claim it.They maybe will make it so if you work it does effect other benefits. Or something.Its not means tested and i think if any thing changes that will be it.

@tiger Whats happened to those at pension age is a disgrace.I have lost count of how many people cant claim pension credit.

@tiger "Kudos to the reds! Nice to see a party really helping the disabled..."

@MJ My apologies for misunderstanding. I just thought I'd send it your way in case you were unaware. I completely get what you're saying. I personally don't buy into the means tested idea because it would heavily affect working PIP claimants and that would result in more disabled people not being able to work vs. less. Which is not what Labour wants, of course.

@Jon

@Mr Chen Chen Sorry was meant for Dods 

@Dez That is a very bold statement

@Dez My point was even if Timms is a good guy he's low down in the hierarchy. As for Reeves not being in favour of vouchers, I don't think many thought it was likely, the vouchers system was just a possibility. More probable is cuts or means tests. We will see in due course but they have said there will be changes, so therefore expect something.