- Posts: 3
× Members
Mandatory Reconsideration queries
- Caroline
- Topic Author
- Offline
Less More
8 years 11 months ago #159331 by Caroline
Mandatory Reconsideration queries was created by Caroline
Hi first time posting, I am helping my husband with his ESA mandatory reconsideration after he received zero points in his medical. I attended this medical with him.
We did not find your site until we had naively filled in the form for CB ESA and thought his main medical condition of COPD and his inability to continue working due to his symptoms would be straightforward, especially as he has had fit notes for the past three months.
He has gone into a bit of melt down not understanding why the doctors fit notes of ‘not fit to work’ are taken into any consideration, so I have stepped into to try and understand the system.
I have read the very helpful guides and was wondering if you could help me with a few points.
1- Is it OK to quote passages from the guide on COPD for the DWP if I feel this is relevant to his condition and the health assessor has ignored the DWP’s own guidelines
2- How do I raise/argue this point that the assessor has omitted from the report. During the assessment the health assessor got my husband to perform a sequence of repeated upper body movements after which she carried out a peak flow test, unhappy with his initial reading of 250 she asked him to repeat the the test under strict observation. The second result was 200, at which she exclaimed she had better use the first reading. Nowhere in the report is this result mentioned or the fact that it was carried out at all, The effort of the sequences had a direct effect on his breathing.
3- I feel I will have to argue exceptional circumstances, is it advisable when giving reasons to mention that you feel being placed in the support group is the only option.
Thank you in anticipation of your time and reply, funnily enough writing these points has made me feel more focused but after the niavity at the outset I would value your opinions.
Carolnee
We did not find your site until we had naively filled in the form for CB ESA and thought his main medical condition of COPD and his inability to continue working due to his symptoms would be straightforward, especially as he has had fit notes for the past three months.
He has gone into a bit of melt down not understanding why the doctors fit notes of ‘not fit to work’ are taken into any consideration, so I have stepped into to try and understand the system.
I have read the very helpful guides and was wondering if you could help me with a few points.
1- Is it OK to quote passages from the guide on COPD for the DWP if I feel this is relevant to his condition and the health assessor has ignored the DWP’s own guidelines
2- How do I raise/argue this point that the assessor has omitted from the report. During the assessment the health assessor got my husband to perform a sequence of repeated upper body movements after which she carried out a peak flow test, unhappy with his initial reading of 250 she asked him to repeat the the test under strict observation. The second result was 200, at which she exclaimed she had better use the first reading. Nowhere in the report is this result mentioned or the fact that it was carried out at all, The effort of the sequences had a direct effect on his breathing.
3- I feel I will have to argue exceptional circumstances, is it advisable when giving reasons to mention that you feel being placed in the support group is the only option.
Thank you in anticipation of your time and reply, funnily enough writing these points has made me feel more focused but after the niavity at the outset I would value your opinions.
Carolnee
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Gordon
- Offline
Less More
- Posts: 51284
8 years 11 months ago #159347 by Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gordon on topic Mandatory Reconsideration queries
Caroline
Your primary duty is to show that your husband meets the criteria for an award and the Support Group in particular, even if the points that you raise are accepted, it won't result in an award without your doing this.
Many of the Descriptors (the legal tests against which a claimant is assessed) have multiple elements, you must show that he meets each of these to score points of meet the SG criteria, so have a look at the ESA Claim guides to see what you need to show. For example; the Mobility activity looks at your husbands ability to walk and self propel a manual wheelchair over certain distances, I would have thought that this is one of the activities that his COPD would make it difficult for him to complete.
Activities must be completed on the majority of days and must be repeatable not to score points.
To answer your specific questions
1. The DM is not medically trained so it can be relevant to include information about COPD to help them understand the implications that might result from having the condition, try and keep it simple though, too detailed and they may send it back to Maximus for an opinion, although this may bot be a negative thing, it will certainly delay the process.
2. Just draw the facts to the DM's attention, bearing in mind (1) above this would be a good time to explain average Peak Flow results and the issues that would result from a low reading.
3. I wouldn't limit yourself to just going for the SG, the criteria for the WRAG and the SG are different so you would not be undermining a potential SG award by also making a case for the WRAG. Even though you think that an SG award is the most appropriate, a WRAG placement is still a success and does not prevent you appealing that Decision to be placed in the SG.
Gordon
Your primary duty is to show that your husband meets the criteria for an award and the Support Group in particular, even if the points that you raise are accepted, it won't result in an award without your doing this.
Many of the Descriptors (the legal tests against which a claimant is assessed) have multiple elements, you must show that he meets each of these to score points of meet the SG criteria, so have a look at the ESA Claim guides to see what you need to show. For example; the Mobility activity looks at your husbands ability to walk and self propel a manual wheelchair over certain distances, I would have thought that this is one of the activities that his COPD would make it difficult for him to complete.
Activities must be completed on the majority of days and must be repeatable not to score points.
To answer your specific questions
1. The DM is not medically trained so it can be relevant to include information about COPD to help them understand the implications that might result from having the condition, try and keep it simple though, too detailed and they may send it back to Maximus for an opinion, although this may bot be a negative thing, it will certainly delay the process.
2. Just draw the facts to the DM's attention, bearing in mind (1) above this would be a good time to explain average Peak Flow results and the issues that would result from a low reading.
3. I wouldn't limit yourself to just going for the SG, the criteria for the WRAG and the SG are different so you would not be undermining a potential SG award by also making a case for the WRAG. Even though you think that an SG award is the most appropriate, a WRAG placement is still a success and does not prevent you appealing that Decision to be placed in the SG.
Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
The following user(s) said Thank You: Caroline
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Caroline
- Topic Author
- Offline
Less More
- Posts: 3
8 years 10 months ago #161185 by Caroline
Replied by Caroline on topic Mandatory Reconsideration queries
Hi
After asking for mandatory reconsideration my husband applied for JSA and after this claim was up and running he gave in doctors fit note but was still expected to look for work as agreed with a JSA coach and sign on as normal, no mention of extended sickness applying.
After not receiving any money on the due date from JSA he phoned to ask why, after a game of ping pong with various DWP departments we had an out of hours phone call in which it was stated he couldn't use the same reasons on his fit note as he was for claiming ESA for as this would make his JSA claim invalid as he wasn't fit for work, he pointed out that his job seekers claim had been accepted before supplying the fit note and that as the DWP (as in his failed ESA claim) said even with this he was fit for work and that he had been looking for work as agreed in JSA agreement. They said they would look into this matter, has anyone else encountered this?
This morning we had the brown envelope to say mandatory consideration failed, so looking at appeal now
((
After asking for mandatory reconsideration my husband applied for JSA and after this claim was up and running he gave in doctors fit note but was still expected to look for work as agreed with a JSA coach and sign on as normal, no mention of extended sickness applying.
After not receiving any money on the due date from JSA he phoned to ask why, after a game of ping pong with various DWP departments we had an out of hours phone call in which it was stated he couldn't use the same reasons on his fit note as he was for claiming ESA for as this would make his JSA claim invalid as he wasn't fit for work, he pointed out that his job seekers claim had been accepted before supplying the fit note and that as the DWP (as in his failed ESA claim) said even with this he was fit for work and that he had been looking for work as agreed in JSA agreement. They said they would look into this matter, has anyone else encountered this?
This morning we had the brown envelope to say mandatory consideration failed, so looking at appeal now

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Gordon
- Offline
Less More
- Posts: 51284
8 years 10 months ago #161205 by Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gordon on topic Mandatory Reconsideration queries
Caroline
They are talking rubbish, by definition (unfortunately) your husband is Fit for Work, providing your husband is presenting a new Fit Note, then it does not matter what the reasons for the Note being issues are as it post dates the ESA Decision and is therefore unconnected to it.
Gordon
They are talking rubbish, by definition (unfortunately) your husband is Fit for Work, providing your husband is presenting a new Fit Note, then it does not matter what the reasons for the Note being issues are as it post dates the ESA Decision and is therefore unconnected to it.
Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
The following user(s) said Thank You: Caroline
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- slugsta
- Offline
Less More
- Posts: 9439
8 years 10 months ago #161207 by slugsta
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by slugsta on topic Mandatory Reconsideration queries
Hi Caroline,
Sorry to hear that you are being given the runaround like this!
As you say, the 'Secretary of State' - via the DWP - has deemed your husband 'fit for work' despite his GP issuing a fitnote. This allows the failed ESA claimant to sign on for JSA.
We have not previously heard of anyone who has been told they cannot use the same conditions on their JSA fitnote as they used for their ESA claim. That is clearly ridiculous
Is it the JobCentre+ adviser who has told him this?
Sorry to hear that you are being given the runaround like this!
As you say, the 'Secretary of State' - via the DWP - has deemed your husband 'fit for work' despite his GP issuing a fitnote. This allows the failed ESA claimant to sign on for JSA.
We have not previously heard of anyone who has been told they cannot use the same conditions on their JSA fitnote as they used for their ESA claim. That is clearly ridiculous

Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
The following user(s) said Thank You: Caroline
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Caroline
- Topic Author
- Offline
Less More
- Posts: 3
8 years 10 months ago #161221 by Caroline
Replied by Caroline on topic Mandatory Reconsideration queries
Thank you for your replies we were beginning to think we had lost the plot
) we were not sure who phoned us as it was 6:40pm after office hours, she quoted a broken leg or heart problem as a for instance for supplying a fit note.
Using the advice about the DWP saying he was fit for work seemed to work as we received payment today.
My husband has appointment with job seekers again on Monday to try and sort out about looking for work whilst on a sick note.
We have yet to try and work out how to approach the appeal, thank you for all the support

Using the advice about the DWP saying he was fit for work seemed to work as we received payment today.
My husband has appointment with job seekers again on Monday to try and sort out about looking for work whilst on a sick note.
We have yet to try and work out how to approach the appeal, thank you for all the support
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
Moderators: Gordon, Gary, BIS, Catherine, Wendy, Kelly, greekqueen, peter, Katherine, Super User, Chris, David