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PIP refusal
- Seffie
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7 years 1 month ago #185395 by Seffie
PIP refusal was created by Seffie
I last posted in January when my PIP was disallowed having cored 4 on care and nil on mobility.
I have a diagnosis of aspergers, dyspraxia and osteoporosis all of which were backed up
with clinical reports.
Osteoporosis is particularly severe. I also have fibromyalgia.
I was given 4 points for needing aids for preparing food and bathing.
No change on mandatory reconsideration so I appealed and have not yet got a hearing date.
Today I received my copy of all the documents. My main concern was the refusal of mobility component. Assessor accepted I walked slowly with a slightly unsteady gait and the aid of a stick. My argument is I cannot walk 200m safely, to an acceptable standard and in a timely fashion.
The latest DM who has looked at the appeal has stated I drive a manual car (correct). She states 'to drive she uses significant physical and cognitive function including grip, power and upper and lower joint movements as well as memory, reasoning, concentration, judgement and co-ordination. If her functional ability was as limited as claimed she would be unfit to drive according to DVLA guidelines.
Has anyone come across this phraseology before? If seems like a well rehearsed phrase - so if you can drive a manual car you must be able to walk safely and to an acceptable standard according to that.
I suffer with fibro which means for the majority of the time due to flare-ups I take between 3 and 4 times as long as an able bodied person to walk any distance. As is the case with many on the autistic spectrum I have a degree of motor coordination problems. Two years ago I had a minor fall which resulted in major surgery to my wrist- had to have a plate fitted and I now live in fear of falling because of potential damage especially to hips or spine.
The latest DM also mentions she has considered the discrepancies on my PIP2 and the information provided in the face to face consultation. Is this their way of calling me a liar?
I would be grateful for your opinion on this.
I have a diagnosis of aspergers, dyspraxia and osteoporosis all of which were backed up
with clinical reports.
Osteoporosis is particularly severe. I also have fibromyalgia.
I was given 4 points for needing aids for preparing food and bathing.
No change on mandatory reconsideration so I appealed and have not yet got a hearing date.
Today I received my copy of all the documents. My main concern was the refusal of mobility component. Assessor accepted I walked slowly with a slightly unsteady gait and the aid of a stick. My argument is I cannot walk 200m safely, to an acceptable standard and in a timely fashion.
The latest DM who has looked at the appeal has stated I drive a manual car (correct). She states 'to drive she uses significant physical and cognitive function including grip, power and upper and lower joint movements as well as memory, reasoning, concentration, judgement and co-ordination. If her functional ability was as limited as claimed she would be unfit to drive according to DVLA guidelines.
Has anyone come across this phraseology before? If seems like a well rehearsed phrase - so if you can drive a manual car you must be able to walk safely and to an acceptable standard according to that.
I suffer with fibro which means for the majority of the time due to flare-ups I take between 3 and 4 times as long as an able bodied person to walk any distance. As is the case with many on the autistic spectrum I have a degree of motor coordination problems. Two years ago I had a minor fall which resulted in major surgery to my wrist- had to have a plate fitted and I now live in fear of falling because of potential damage especially to hips or spine.
The latest DM also mentions she has considered the discrepancies on my PIP2 and the information provided in the face to face consultation. Is this their way of calling me a liar?
I would be grateful for your opinion on this.
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- Gordon
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7 years 1 month ago #185406 by Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gordon on topic PIP refusal
Seffie
Did you mean "200m" in your post?
The reference to driving a car is not unusual, there are two distinct issues with a claimant driving, one that is reasonable and one that is less so.
First, the DWP will argue that someone who drives has good cognitive ability as the process of driving requires the driver to be aware of what is going on around them, to be able to pre-empt situations that they are approaching and to be able to manage the operation of the vehicle.
They will also argue that it show good navigation skills and an ability to plan a route, however, claimants might be able to argue that if only one journey is undertaken and the claimant had to be shown that route, that they are in fact not able to plan or navigate a route, but I think there is little flexibility in this argument.
Secondly, the DWP view driving as a physical activity, for example holding the wheel requires a level of dexterity, strength and endurance in their hands, arms and shoulders, They also believe that the operation of the pedals is akin to walking and so someone who can drive can also walk. I (for what it is worth as I don't do assessments) think that this argument is very weak, however, most people drive a car to go somewhere and having arrived at that place they may then need to then walk to complete their journey, for example; none of the car parks in my area have lifts that are less than 20m from disabled parking spaces and the Motability shop where I can hire a scooter is the best part of 100m.
You say that your walking speed is three or four times as long as an able bodied person, have you any empirical data to support this? Could you measure out a suitable distance and then time yourself walking it?
Gordon
Did you mean "200m" in your post?
The reference to driving a car is not unusual, there are two distinct issues with a claimant driving, one that is reasonable and one that is less so.
First, the DWP will argue that someone who drives has good cognitive ability as the process of driving requires the driver to be aware of what is going on around them, to be able to pre-empt situations that they are approaching and to be able to manage the operation of the vehicle.
They will also argue that it show good navigation skills and an ability to plan a route, however, claimants might be able to argue that if only one journey is undertaken and the claimant had to be shown that route, that they are in fact not able to plan or navigate a route, but I think there is little flexibility in this argument.
Secondly, the DWP view driving as a physical activity, for example holding the wheel requires a level of dexterity, strength and endurance in their hands, arms and shoulders, They also believe that the operation of the pedals is akin to walking and so someone who can drive can also walk. I (for what it is worth as I don't do assessments) think that this argument is very weak, however, most people drive a car to go somewhere and having arrived at that place they may then need to then walk to complete their journey, for example; none of the car parks in my area have lifts that are less than 20m from disabled parking spaces and the Motability shop where I can hire a scooter is the best part of 100m.
You say that your walking speed is three or four times as long as an able bodied person, have you any empirical data to support this? Could you measure out a suitable distance and then time yourself walking it?
Gordon
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- blueshouter
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7 years 1 month ago #185428 by blueshouter
Replied by blueshouter on topic PIP refusal
this argument by the dwp on driving a car is crazy,everyone who has mobility problems needs a car
also are they saying that no one can attend hospital ? as surely every hospital constitutes more than 20 metres walk? the argument must be that though you obviously have to walk more than 20 metres you have to keep stopping because of pain or breathlessness
no one would get an award if you have to go to hospital ?
also are they saying that no one can attend hospital ? as surely every hospital constitutes more than 20 metres walk? the argument must be that though you obviously have to walk more than 20 metres you have to keep stopping because of pain or breathlessness
no one would get an award if you have to go to hospital ?
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- slugsta
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7 years 1 month ago #185448 by slugsta
It is up to the claimant to explain their limitations and, if necessary, to explain any apparent inconsistencies.
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by slugsta on topic PIP refusal
blueshouter wrote: this argument by the dwp on driving a car is crazy,everyone who has mobility problems needs a car
also are they saying that no one can attend hospital ? as surely every hospital constitutes more than 20 metres walk? the argument must be that though you obviously have to walk more than 20 metres you have to keep stopping because of pain or breathlessness
no one would get an award if you have to go to hospital ?
It is up to the claimant to explain their limitations and, if necessary, to explain any apparent inconsistencies.
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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- Seffie
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7 years 1 month ago #185507 by Seffie
Replied by Seffie on topic PIP refusal
Thank you for your input Gordon.
Today I measured the distance from car to office using the pedometer app on my phone, its 350 steps so about 700 feet or 230 meters. it took me just under 11 minutes to do that. I often pass colleagues on my way in and by the time I get there they are well settled in at their desks.
My employers are aware of my mobility problems and have designed a building evacuation plan for me (eg fire drills) where I have to wait for the majority of staff to leave and am then accompanied by a buddy down the stairs to lessen the chance of me falling.
Regarding driving - surely I can argue that this is a lot safer than walking as there is no chance of me falling over when in the drivers seat and getting a fracture. I have never claimed to have any disability with my feet so can use pedals freely.
I fully realise that a lot of people more deserving than me get turned down, and I am seriously considering withdrawing my appeal as I feel so disheartened - and yes angry- by the comments that if I am as bad as I claim I should not be driving. I do know of someone who has slightly worse mobility problems than me (but no osteoporosis) who has been awarded high rate PIP mob and she drives a manual car.
I would appreciate your opinion on the walking speed figures above. In my opinion it shows I have a much slower speed than normal - this is coupled with having brittle bones and stiff/sore muscles due to fibro.
Today I measured the distance from car to office using the pedometer app on my phone, its 350 steps so about 700 feet or 230 meters. it took me just under 11 minutes to do that. I often pass colleagues on my way in and by the time I get there they are well settled in at their desks.
My employers are aware of my mobility problems and have designed a building evacuation plan for me (eg fire drills) where I have to wait for the majority of staff to leave and am then accompanied by a buddy down the stairs to lessen the chance of me falling.
Regarding driving - surely I can argue that this is a lot safer than walking as there is no chance of me falling over when in the drivers seat and getting a fracture. I have never claimed to have any disability with my feet so can use pedals freely.
I fully realise that a lot of people more deserving than me get turned down, and I am seriously considering withdrawing my appeal as I feel so disheartened - and yes angry- by the comments that if I am as bad as I claim I should not be driving. I do know of someone who has slightly worse mobility problems than me (but no osteoporosis) who has been awarded high rate PIP mob and she drives a manual car.
I would appreciate your opinion on the walking speed figures above. In my opinion it shows I have a much slower speed than normal - this is coupled with having brittle bones and stiff/sore muscles due to fibro.
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- Gordon
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7 years 1 month ago #185520 by Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gordon on topic PIP refusal
Seffie
The positive thing is that I agree your walking speed is less than half the speed that a healthy person would walk at but the distance you can walk is going to be an issue, it shouldn't be but I suspect that it will.
You need to do more tests and for shorter distances; 20m, 50m and 100m. Speaking from personal experience you will likely walk faster in the first half of a distance than the second, so you need to provide data for this, you also need to provide more data to show consistency
Gordon
The positive thing is that I agree your walking speed is less than half the speed that a healthy person would walk at but the distance you can walk is going to be an issue, it shouldn't be but I suspect that it will.
You need to do more tests and for shorter distances; 20m, 50m and 100m. Speaking from personal experience you will likely walk faster in the first half of a distance than the second, so you need to provide data for this, you also need to provide more data to show consistency
Gordon
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