- Posts: 5
× Members
PIP review evidence
- abc8512
- Topic Author
- Offline
Less More
6 years 4 months ago #221970 by abc8512
PIP review evidence was created by abc8512
Hi,
In early 2015 I just missed out getting both components of PIP but I got a copy of assessment report and submitted a MR request along with evidence and a GP letter addressing things from their f2f report. I was successfully awarded standard daily living for 4 years. I didn't appeal the mobility aspect as it was already too much stress.
Now 3 years later I submitted the review form with detailed answers and what medical letters I had hoping to avoid another f2f but not so, had a (very chaotic) f2f over the summer.
4 months later have now received the decision, zero points across the board. I've already phoned to request MR and got a hard-copy of their f2f report sent which is full of things that have no resemblance to what I actually said.
I don't anticipate the MR to change things given the sheer amount of errors and factually wrong info in their report and limited time to send it in.
My question refers to evidence for the appeal process. I need to obtain new evidence and or reports that address their inaccuracies. At least one of my specialists have said they are willing to write a relevant report (and hopefully gp too). In terms of appeal how do I go about discussing what is required without an appeal potentially then suggesting I'm "putting words into their mouth". I'd have though that their profession position alone would be sufficient but I think I may have read somewhere an appeal can ask for communication between e.g. myself and GP? Last time I discussed things verbally with GP across a few appointments.
Thank you the the B&W site for all the guides and help, and any advice on the above greatly appreciated!
In early 2015 I just missed out getting both components of PIP but I got a copy of assessment report and submitted a MR request along with evidence and a GP letter addressing things from their f2f report. I was successfully awarded standard daily living for 4 years. I didn't appeal the mobility aspect as it was already too much stress.
Now 3 years later I submitted the review form with detailed answers and what medical letters I had hoping to avoid another f2f but not so, had a (very chaotic) f2f over the summer.
4 months later have now received the decision, zero points across the board. I've already phoned to request MR and got a hard-copy of their f2f report sent which is full of things that have no resemblance to what I actually said.
I don't anticipate the MR to change things given the sheer amount of errors and factually wrong info in their report and limited time to send it in.
My question refers to evidence for the appeal process. I need to obtain new evidence and or reports that address their inaccuracies. At least one of my specialists have said they are willing to write a relevant report (and hopefully gp too). In terms of appeal how do I go about discussing what is required without an appeal potentially then suggesting I'm "putting words into their mouth". I'd have though that their profession position alone would be sufficient but I think I may have read somewhere an appeal can ask for communication between e.g. myself and GP? Last time I discussed things verbally with GP across a few appointments.
Thank you the the B&W site for all the guides and help, and any advice on the above greatly appreciated!
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Gordon
- Offline
Less More
- Posts: 51287
6 years 4 months ago #221994 by Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gordon on topic PIP review evidence
Andy
I would explain your concern to your Consultant and ask them what they think is the best way for them to get the information that they need to produce a report, this may be there sitting down and asking you questions, perhaps receiving a copy of your previous PIP2 and this latest AR1 form.
There is also a GP Notes document in the PIP area that they can use to directly or to give structure to their own report.
An appeal is not always about finding new evidence, you may have already provided enough and it has been ignored. Also, the assessment report may not be the damning thing it appears to be, see
www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/news/3688-most...enior-tribunal-judge
Gordon
I would explain your concern to your Consultant and ask them what they think is the best way for them to get the information that they need to produce a report, this may be there sitting down and asking you questions, perhaps receiving a copy of your previous PIP2 and this latest AR1 form.
There is also a GP Notes document in the PIP area that they can use to directly or to give structure to their own report.
An appeal is not always about finding new evidence, you may have already provided enough and it has been ignored. Also, the assessment report may not be the damning thing it appears to be, see
www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/news/3688-most...enior-tribunal-judge
Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
The following user(s) said Thank You: abc8512
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- abc8512
- Topic Author
- Offline
Less More
- Posts: 5
6 years 3 months ago #224399 by abc8512
Replied by abc8512 on topic PIP review evidence + appeal
Thanks again Gordon for the above, apologies for the length of this one, main Qs in bold.
Phoned and wrote to DWP for MR, stating I would submit further supporting evidence *as available* but even now have not had the opportunity to talk with specialist or even my own GP.
As expected MR was unsuccessful - 0 points everywhere, they stated that my health conditions are not in dispute but PIP is based on ability to carry out certain activities which they state no significant restrictions were found. Also misleadingly quote my specialist's letter regarding "good range of movement", the original quote was very specific to cervical neck rotation not body in general but they've misleadingly omitted that detail.
I've asked for help from CAB with appeal, will see them a few days before the appeal submission deadline. I will list the activities I believe I should have again scored along with explanation but in terms of the appeal form, is this the only opportunity to list *all* the issues and inconsistencies I found in the Assessment Report?
For example they have stated I collect my own prescriptions from the pharmacy and will drive there. I don't know where this came from, it is 100% fabricated, a relative has always collected my medications, they even have the wrong frequency as my GP surgey does not even issue them monthly as they state. They've also not recorded my medication side effects.
MSK assessment was under a minute, the pains I reported for certain movements were not recorded, despite me saying "the area below shoulder blade, I forget the name..." and the assessor verbally telling me the medical term but then not mentioning any pains in the report.
The assessor was made aware I was undertaking further hospital investigations and tests and immediately wanted to know how I had got the the specific area in that hospital, I told them I was driven there by a relative to the main entrance and did manage it walking slowly with 2 or 3 rest breaks over 20/30min but afterwards was in bed several days recovering (I have cfs/me and cardiac issues). In the report the assessor has stated this distance is approx 200m and that as such I am able to repeatedly, reliably and to an acceptable standard walk 200m or more for the majority of days. No mention of my pain, recovery time and the obvious unrepeatable aspect. Even the GP report they requested (I asked for a copy) states I have difficulty walking distances. Furthermore they state I have no specialist input, suggesting I am discharged, but were aware of me being investigated as per the mobility distances and even verbally said they hoped my tests go well so knew I was awaiting specialist input.
I believe the above and maybe a dozen or more things, such as incorrectly recording my level of activity and then stating this is inconsistent have given a completely false picture to the decision maker.
On the appeal form should I be listing *all* of the the issues with the medical report in the reasons for appeal or just concentrate on the activites I believe I should still score points on? As there are so many issues it gives the complete wrong impression of my health
The medical notes/evidence I already have unfortunately are related to my conditions and not anything specific to the PIP activists as such. I've arranged to see my GP in February and in November my specialist stated they would help with a letter/report but neither will be ready before appeal submission due date, I assume I am able to submit further supporting evidence to the tribunal when ready, the most important thing is to get the appeal in before deadline?
Any advice or suggestions appreciated, thanks.
Phoned and wrote to DWP for MR, stating I would submit further supporting evidence *as available* but even now have not had the opportunity to talk with specialist or even my own GP.
As expected MR was unsuccessful - 0 points everywhere, they stated that my health conditions are not in dispute but PIP is based on ability to carry out certain activities which they state no significant restrictions were found. Also misleadingly quote my specialist's letter regarding "good range of movement", the original quote was very specific to cervical neck rotation not body in general but they've misleadingly omitted that detail.
I've asked for help from CAB with appeal, will see them a few days before the appeal submission deadline. I will list the activities I believe I should have again scored along with explanation but in terms of the appeal form, is this the only opportunity to list *all* the issues and inconsistencies I found in the Assessment Report?
For example they have stated I collect my own prescriptions from the pharmacy and will drive there. I don't know where this came from, it is 100% fabricated, a relative has always collected my medications, they even have the wrong frequency as my GP surgey does not even issue them monthly as they state. They've also not recorded my medication side effects.
MSK assessment was under a minute, the pains I reported for certain movements were not recorded, despite me saying "the area below shoulder blade, I forget the name..." and the assessor verbally telling me the medical term but then not mentioning any pains in the report.
The assessor was made aware I was undertaking further hospital investigations and tests and immediately wanted to know how I had got the the specific area in that hospital, I told them I was driven there by a relative to the main entrance and did manage it walking slowly with 2 or 3 rest breaks over 20/30min but afterwards was in bed several days recovering (I have cfs/me and cardiac issues). In the report the assessor has stated this distance is approx 200m and that as such I am able to repeatedly, reliably and to an acceptable standard walk 200m or more for the majority of days. No mention of my pain, recovery time and the obvious unrepeatable aspect. Even the GP report they requested (I asked for a copy) states I have difficulty walking distances. Furthermore they state I have no specialist input, suggesting I am discharged, but were aware of me being investigated as per the mobility distances and even verbally said they hoped my tests go well so knew I was awaiting specialist input.
I believe the above and maybe a dozen or more things, such as incorrectly recording my level of activity and then stating this is inconsistent have given a completely false picture to the decision maker.
On the appeal form should I be listing *all* of the the issues with the medical report in the reasons for appeal or just concentrate on the activites I believe I should still score points on? As there are so many issues it gives the complete wrong impression of my health
The medical notes/evidence I already have unfortunately are related to my conditions and not anything specific to the PIP activists as such. I've arranged to see my GP in February and in November my specialist stated they would help with a letter/report but neither will be ready before appeal submission due date, I assume I am able to submit further supporting evidence to the tribunal when ready, the most important thing is to get the appeal in before deadline?
Any advice or suggestions appreciated, thanks.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Gordon
- Offline
Less More
- Posts: 51287
6 years 3 months ago #224403 by Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gordon on topic PIP review evidence + appeal
Andy
You need to explain what you are appealing and why on the SSCS1 Appeal form but you do not need to go into detail, once your appeal is accepted the DWP will be notified and they will create and send their submission for the hearing, you will receive a copy of this and can then create your own submission with your detailed reasons, I would not send your submission to the Tribunal Service until you have received and read the DWP one but you can start creating it now.
Stick to issues that lead to your scoring points, so it is not the incorrect statement about your driving that is the issue but the assumptions that have resulted from it that you need to tackle. If you do argue against the assessor's opinions then try and do so by reference to your evidence, in effect you are trying to show that their opinions are invalid, not just wrong.
Yes, the Tribunal Service need to receive your appeal request within one month of the date of the DWP MR letter. You can submit information up to about two weeks before your hearing but try and keep it one packet. Any new evidence you submit must make it clear that it applies to the date that you were assessed.
Gordon
You need to explain what you are appealing and why on the SSCS1 Appeal form but you do not need to go into detail, once your appeal is accepted the DWP will be notified and they will create and send their submission for the hearing, you will receive a copy of this and can then create your own submission with your detailed reasons, I would not send your submission to the Tribunal Service until you have received and read the DWP one but you can start creating it now.
Stick to issues that lead to your scoring points, so it is not the incorrect statement about your driving that is the issue but the assumptions that have resulted from it that you need to tackle. If you do argue against the assessor's opinions then try and do so by reference to your evidence, in effect you are trying to show that their opinions are invalid, not just wrong.
Yes, the Tribunal Service need to receive your appeal request within one month of the date of the DWP MR letter. You can submit information up to about two weeks before your hearing but try and keep it one packet. Any new evidence you submit must make it clear that it applies to the date that you were assessed.
Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
The following user(s) said Thank You: abc8512
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- abc8512
- Topic Author
- Offline
Less More
- Posts: 5
6 years 2 months ago #226386 by abc8512
Replied by abc8512 on topic PIP review evidence
Hi Gordon,
Sent off SSCS1 form and followed your advice, stating activities and descriptors I feel apply and referencing evidence ignored or taken out of context. I didn't respond to the dozens of other inaccuracies and fabrications etc in the report just the main contested activities.
I was unable to obtain further evidence from my GP and specialist in time so informed them this would follow as available.
Finally this week have a letter from my GP supporting the activities and descriptors for standard rates on both DL and Mobility. I am still awaiting similar from my specialist.
However, whilst awaiting the Appeal pack I've had an unannounced phone call from DWP stating they have reviewed things ahead of the appeal and would consider reinstating my previous 2015 award of standard rate DL (no mobility component though). I was told if I wish to contest mobility this would require declining the offer and allowing the appeal process to continue, I've been given a day to decide.
Providing they do contact me again, I am inclined to accept to lower offer, I don't fully agree with it but I think following the appeal to completion only guarantees more pain, anxiety and stress and possibly no award at all.
I do have a concern that by not being awarded (and not contesting) the mobility aspect this may directly affect a future esa reviews or are they sufficiently distinct?
Hopefully I receive the follow-up call and can accept the lower offer, certainly not ideal but providing it is awarded for more than 6 or 12 months I feel it is on balance acceptable.
Will update as/when possible.
Thank you once again - Andy.
Sent off SSCS1 form and followed your advice, stating activities and descriptors I feel apply and referencing evidence ignored or taken out of context. I didn't respond to the dozens of other inaccuracies and fabrications etc in the report just the main contested activities.
I was unable to obtain further evidence from my GP and specialist in time so informed them this would follow as available.
Finally this week have a letter from my GP supporting the activities and descriptors for standard rates on both DL and Mobility. I am still awaiting similar from my specialist.
However, whilst awaiting the Appeal pack I've had an unannounced phone call from DWP stating they have reviewed things ahead of the appeal and would consider reinstating my previous 2015 award of standard rate DL (no mobility component though). I was told if I wish to contest mobility this would require declining the offer and allowing the appeal process to continue, I've been given a day to decide.
Providing they do contact me again, I am inclined to accept to lower offer, I don't fully agree with it but I think following the appeal to completion only guarantees more pain, anxiety and stress and possibly no award at all.
I do have a concern that by not being awarded (and not contesting) the mobility aspect this may directly affect a future esa reviews or are they sufficiently distinct?
Hopefully I receive the follow-up call and can accept the lower offer, certainly not ideal but providing it is awarded for more than 6 or 12 months I feel it is on balance acceptable.
Will update as/when possible.
Thank you once again - Andy.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Gordon
- Offline
Less More
- Posts: 51287
6 years 2 months ago #226419 by Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gordon on topic PIP review evidence
Andy
You do have the option of accepting the original award and then making a new appeal for the Mobility component, your existing appeal will be lapsed (cancelled) by your accepting the DWP offer.
Gordon
You do have the option of accepting the original award and then making a new appeal for the Mobility component, your existing appeal will be lapsed (cancelled) by your accepting the DWP offer.
Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
Moderators: Gordon, Gary, BIS, Catherine, Wendy, Kelly, greekqueen, peter, Katherine, Super User, Chris, David