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PIP tribunal appeal advice re MH court ruling
- jim555
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5 years 5 months ago #242664 by jim555
Replied by jim555 on topic PIP tribunal appeal advice re MH court ruling
Also I am new to this site and forum and was expecting more comments or advice from claimants who had specific experience with what I am facing. I see now, how it is mainly the moderators who respond hence justifying the subscription cost.
I am sorry if I am asking a lot from you very helpful moderators but in my defense, I didn't know what i could expect from this site or its moderators or active members.
What help and advice I have received has been extremley helpful and very much appreciated.
Part of my difficulties is the need to cover all angles of debate, digest or dismiss any information applicable, ask questions where my complex mind and though process takes me..
Im sorry.
I am sorry if I am asking a lot from you very helpful moderators but in my defense, I didn't know what i could expect from this site or its moderators or active members.
What help and advice I have received has been extremley helpful and very much appreciated.
Part of my difficulties is the need to cover all angles of debate, digest or dismiss any information applicable, ask questions where my complex mind and though process takes me..
Im sorry.
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- BIS
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5 years 5 months ago #242669 by BIS
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by BIS on topic PIP tribunal appeal advice re MH court ruling
Hi James
You're not frustrating me at all, but I cannot give you what you want, because these things are not black and white.
How are you going to 'prove' how many days you required support in 2017? You could provide a letter from a partner, friend or relative confirming that they needed to provide you with support. Or your partner could say you needed the support but they were unable to provide it. You can have a letter from any professional (like a GP or Professional ) who can say at that time that you needed a great deal of support (old letter or current). It doesn't have to be specific to undertaking a journey, it could be talking about the difficulties you have which you could link to any of the relevant criteria. Now on how many days did you need that support? Only you can say. Unless someone has paid support, or they kept a diary about their need for support - it is incredibly difficult to 'prove'. You can only provide what 'evidence ' you have and a statement from you. If you believe that you needed support for the majority of days when for example you may have been trying to leave the house regardless of whether you got it then you will have satisfied the 50% rule and that is the best you can do. If you believe that you required it for less than half the time, you won't satisfy the 50% rule, but the panel could still rule in your favour.
What everyone wants is the perfect answer to these questions and there isn't one because it will depend on individual circumstances and evidence provided and then what the panel thinks.
BIS
You're not frustrating me at all, but I cannot give you what you want, because these things are not black and white.
How are you going to 'prove' how many days you required support in 2017? You could provide a letter from a partner, friend or relative confirming that they needed to provide you with support. Or your partner could say you needed the support but they were unable to provide it. You can have a letter from any professional (like a GP or Professional ) who can say at that time that you needed a great deal of support (old letter or current). It doesn't have to be specific to undertaking a journey, it could be talking about the difficulties you have which you could link to any of the relevant criteria. Now on how many days did you need that support? Only you can say. Unless someone has paid support, or they kept a diary about their need for support - it is incredibly difficult to 'prove'. You can only provide what 'evidence ' you have and a statement from you. If you believe that you needed support for the majority of days when for example you may have been trying to leave the house regardless of whether you got it then you will have satisfied the 50% rule and that is the best you can do. If you believe that you required it for less than half the time, you won't satisfy the 50% rule, but the panel could still rule in your favour.
What everyone wants is the perfect answer to these questions and there isn't one because it will depend on individual circumstances and evidence provided and then what the panel thinks.
BIS
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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- BIS
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5 years 5 months ago #242670 by BIS
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by BIS on topic PIP tribunal appeal advice re MH court ruling
Hi James
Some members do comment, but a lot don't, and that is because some people are worried about giving the incorrect answer or because individual circumstances come into play and even when it appears you are going through the same thing - the experience is quite different.
You want to cover all bases and you are right to be as prepared as you can, but it's almost impossible for anyone to get it all 'right' - because there is no 'right' (my word not yours). We had a professional representing a claimant at a tribunal last year who was praised by the judge for producing the best-written evidence and defence of a case the judge had ever seen - and they still lost the case (and couldn't understand why).
BIS
Some members do comment, but a lot don't, and that is because some people are worried about giving the incorrect answer or because individual circumstances come into play and even when it appears you are going through the same thing - the experience is quite different.
You want to cover all bases and you are right to be as prepared as you can, but it's almost impossible for anyone to get it all 'right' - because there is no 'right' (my word not yours). We had a professional representing a claimant at a tribunal last year who was praised by the judge for producing the best-written evidence and defence of a case the judge had ever seen - and they still lost the case (and couldn't understand why).
BIS
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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5 years 5 months ago #242728 by jim555
Replied by jim555 on topic PIP tribunal appeal advice re MH court ruling
Much appreciated BIS. I understand what you are saying, thank you for explaining things to me.
So how things stand at present. I have CAB helping me with my appeal, acting as my representative. Big relief, as I had 20 plus pages of information I had prepared for my appeal but no clue how to break it down into what was relevant or what was not. I shall be requesting a paper hearing because of my circumstances an oral hearing would not be an option for me. ( evidence and reasons will be submitted with appeal ) I was engaging and attending Psychological Intervention treatment before after my original award period. I attended all 8 sessions on both occasions. All PHQ9, GAD7, CORE before and after scores and results were in the severe catorgory. Have GP letters one before and one after award date relating to limitations and struggles leaving my home hence requesting and being provided with home assessments relating to OPD. I make statements in my PIP claim form about needing help from another person to go out. Ticked relevant boxes on form. PA4 form also has reference to help from another person needed at the time of original award. I have a recent GP letter detailing current need for support from another person but new GP so unable to clarify for 2017?? Also have nhs letter dated aug 2019, making references to IAPT back in 2016 and 2017 and after. Stating I engaged well and attended all sessions but made no progress and still struggled to leave the house and required support from his wife to attend appointments. I think this is key evidence and I show win my appeal but I need to cover all the other areas like giving examples of what has or would happen in the absence of this required support etc. I would say I am just at the beginning of my appeal and have a long way to go but only 3 days to complete.
My main case i wish to argue is much evidence and reference, is made to the need for help from another person supporting satisfying 1f around time of award. This information by far outweighs the HCP opinion awarding me 1e, what evidence supporting 1e is available for the conclusion of that decision is not apparent.
Also none of my personal statements confirm I am totally housebound and under no circumstances can I leave my house. ( The request for home assessments does not contradict this just highlights significant OPD experienced consistently)
Am I right in thinking the mutually exclusive aspect for 1e and 1f should work in my favor in respect to, If i prove and satisfy 1f then 1e should be dismissed? Is it not the case that, this should be the same for all descriptors? confusing.
Also, is it not true that at the time of orginial award 2017, the significance of the mutually exclusive element between 1e and 1f did not exist due to the OPD part in 1f? Therefore at the time of award, 1f not being applicable to me, OPD being present, the decision would have automatically pushed into 1e catorgory even without much evidence of majority of days?
I am thinking that the best form of evidence I can submit would be either my old GP relating back to 2017 and my partner/ carer letter detailing circumstances relating to 1f around the 2017 time of award.
Do you think I am focusing on the right lines?
Thanks
So how things stand at present. I have CAB helping me with my appeal, acting as my representative. Big relief, as I had 20 plus pages of information I had prepared for my appeal but no clue how to break it down into what was relevant or what was not. I shall be requesting a paper hearing because of my circumstances an oral hearing would not be an option for me. ( evidence and reasons will be submitted with appeal ) I was engaging and attending Psychological Intervention treatment before after my original award period. I attended all 8 sessions on both occasions. All PHQ9, GAD7, CORE before and after scores and results were in the severe catorgory. Have GP letters one before and one after award date relating to limitations and struggles leaving my home hence requesting and being provided with home assessments relating to OPD. I make statements in my PIP claim form about needing help from another person to go out. Ticked relevant boxes on form. PA4 form also has reference to help from another person needed at the time of original award. I have a recent GP letter detailing current need for support from another person but new GP so unable to clarify for 2017?? Also have nhs letter dated aug 2019, making references to IAPT back in 2016 and 2017 and after. Stating I engaged well and attended all sessions but made no progress and still struggled to leave the house and required support from his wife to attend appointments. I think this is key evidence and I show win my appeal but I need to cover all the other areas like giving examples of what has or would happen in the absence of this required support etc. I would say I am just at the beginning of my appeal and have a long way to go but only 3 days to complete.
My main case i wish to argue is much evidence and reference, is made to the need for help from another person supporting satisfying 1f around time of award. This information by far outweighs the HCP opinion awarding me 1e, what evidence supporting 1e is available for the conclusion of that decision is not apparent.
Also none of my personal statements confirm I am totally housebound and under no circumstances can I leave my house. ( The request for home assessments does not contradict this just highlights significant OPD experienced consistently)
Am I right in thinking the mutually exclusive aspect for 1e and 1f should work in my favor in respect to, If i prove and satisfy 1f then 1e should be dismissed? Is it not the case that, this should be the same for all descriptors? confusing.
Also, is it not true that at the time of orginial award 2017, the significance of the mutually exclusive element between 1e and 1f did not exist due to the OPD part in 1f? Therefore at the time of award, 1f not being applicable to me, OPD being present, the decision would have automatically pushed into 1e catorgory even without much evidence of majority of days?
I am thinking that the best form of evidence I can submit would be either my old GP relating back to 2017 and my partner/ carer letter detailing circumstances relating to 1f around the 2017 time of award.
Do you think I am focusing on the right lines?
Thanks
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5 years 5 months ago #242729 by jim555
Replied by jim555 on topic PIP tribunal appeal advice re MH court ruling
Other parts I need to focus on are RF ruling applicable to 1f. safety risks involved. should also include risks that would be probable even if the help was not available but not provided. This is an area that I have not looked into much but feel should be included to increase my chances of being successful satisfying 1f descriptor if my other points fail.
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- BIS
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5 years 5 months ago #242731 by BIS
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by BIS on topic PIP tribunal appeal advice re MH court ruling
Hi Jim555
Yes, you are focusing upon the right lines. I'm glad you have some help from the CAB. You have lots of evidence. Don't worry that you can't confirm from the GP evidence from 2017. Send a letter from your partner.
It will be up to the panel whether they think you satisfy 1f rather than 1e and that is just going to be how they read your evidence and how much they believe you leave the house or would leave the home with support.
BIS
Yes, you are focusing upon the right lines. I'm glad you have some help from the CAB. You have lots of evidence. Don't worry that you can't confirm from the GP evidence from 2017. Send a letter from your partner.
It will be up to the panel whether they think you satisfy 1f rather than 1e and that is just going to be how they read your evidence and how much they believe you leave the house or would leave the home with support.
BIS
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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