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No ESA50 sent out but phone assessment
- alleycat
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4 years 1 month ago #257110 by alleycat
No ESA50 sent out but phone assessment was created by alleycat
Hi, I'm trying to help a friend who has severe back injury and cannot do many daily tasks due to constant pain. He became virtually immobile in March20 and redundant in Sept20. He must have completed initial ESA eligibility form (over phone) but does not think he was ever sent ESA50. He contacted me in Dec to help him with PIP 2 as a physio suggested he applied. I had not seen him since Feb20 due to lockdowns.
I completed the form and sent off in Dec and then he told me he has a phone interview in middle of Jan21. I thought this was rather quick but it went ahead. He then received a letter saying he was having an phone interview in March. I was very perplexed and told him to check with DWP PIP to ask why he needed another interview. They told him the March interview was PIP but the January interview was for the ESA claim. I had no idea he had claimed ESA - and neither did he really ( he is taking a lot of pain relief but is still suffering and his memory is "shot" as he says).
Then he receives a letter saying he is in the WRAG . He had not opened the letter until I asked him if he had any DWP correspondence and he realised it was from them and sent me the first page.- and then his carer, when clearing up, discarded the other pages which may have explained his points and DWP decision !!
So obviously- this has caused delay in asking for a Reconsideration and submitting his reasons why - that deadline is this Saturday.!
. But my main query is he has NO RECOLLECTION of completing or having anyone else complete ESA50.. He has no copy or emails relevant and the only form he states he has had similar - is the PIP that I completed (with regular phone discussions between him and myself). I told him to get a copy of the January ESA assessor's report which he has done but it omits so many issues and states he can walk with stick, carry washing, has no continence issues, memory is in tact (!) etc- so many omissions and incorrect facts that contradict the actual facts that I have put on the PIP form. I must explain that I have a daughter with learning disabilities, a son with schizophrenia and another son who suffered a broken back , so, although no expert, I have some experience of benefit claims. I have to explain every thing my friend has to do very simply in a text and he still misunderstands unfortunately. He was a man who worked as a senior building surveyor , extremely literate and used to writing and reading reports. Now he can hardly put 2 sentences together due to pain, meds and frequent tearful outbursts and unable to read correspondence thoroughly and comprehend. I told him to request a Reconsideration BUT is this all to late..?
Will I have to construct a coherent appeal for him? Without being certain that no ESA50 was submitted I do not know how to approach this and , if an ESA50 did somehow go to DWP, can I /he ask for a copy of his own form? I will write a detailed Reconsideration letter but, again he has no correspondence which explains his points and their decision - difficult to contest I feel .Obviously I am not seeing him at present but my husband takes him items and some moral support. He has had no Orthopaedic assessment as there is a backlog and all new referrals will not be contacted, let alone seen, until the end of the year. Although he had an MRI ordered by his GP which showed up serious issues which probably need surgery, no spinal expert has assessed him and therefore he has very little medical evidence to forward.
Apologies for my lengthy message but I do not really know how to proceed - I am not with him so I cannot get his consent to speak on his behalf to DWP over the phone.
Thank you for letting me expel my concerns - maybe somebody can suggest a way forward.. Keep safe all of you !
I completed the form and sent off in Dec and then he told me he has a phone interview in middle of Jan21. I thought this was rather quick but it went ahead. He then received a letter saying he was having an phone interview in March. I was very perplexed and told him to check with DWP PIP to ask why he needed another interview. They told him the March interview was PIP but the January interview was for the ESA claim. I had no idea he had claimed ESA - and neither did he really ( he is taking a lot of pain relief but is still suffering and his memory is "shot" as he says).
Then he receives a letter saying he is in the WRAG . He had not opened the letter until I asked him if he had any DWP correspondence and he realised it was from them and sent me the first page.- and then his carer, when clearing up, discarded the other pages which may have explained his points and DWP decision !!
So obviously- this has caused delay in asking for a Reconsideration and submitting his reasons why - that deadline is this Saturday.!
. But my main query is he has NO RECOLLECTION of completing or having anyone else complete ESA50.. He has no copy or emails relevant and the only form he states he has had similar - is the PIP that I completed (with regular phone discussions between him and myself). I told him to get a copy of the January ESA assessor's report which he has done but it omits so many issues and states he can walk with stick, carry washing, has no continence issues, memory is in tact (!) etc- so many omissions and incorrect facts that contradict the actual facts that I have put on the PIP form. I must explain that I have a daughter with learning disabilities, a son with schizophrenia and another son who suffered a broken back , so, although no expert, I have some experience of benefit claims. I have to explain every thing my friend has to do very simply in a text and he still misunderstands unfortunately. He was a man who worked as a senior building surveyor , extremely literate and used to writing and reading reports. Now he can hardly put 2 sentences together due to pain, meds and frequent tearful outbursts and unable to read correspondence thoroughly and comprehend. I told him to request a Reconsideration BUT is this all to late..?
Will I have to construct a coherent appeal for him? Without being certain that no ESA50 was submitted I do not know how to approach this and , if an ESA50 did somehow go to DWP, can I /he ask for a copy of his own form? I will write a detailed Reconsideration letter but, again he has no correspondence which explains his points and their decision - difficult to contest I feel .Obviously I am not seeing him at present but my husband takes him items and some moral support. He has had no Orthopaedic assessment as there is a backlog and all new referrals will not be contacted, let alone seen, until the end of the year. Although he had an MRI ordered by his GP which showed up serious issues which probably need surgery, no spinal expert has assessed him and therefore he has very little medical evidence to forward.
Apologies for my lengthy message but I do not really know how to proceed - I am not with him so I cannot get his consent to speak on his behalf to DWP over the phone.
Thank you for letting me expel my concerns - maybe somebody can suggest a way forward.. Keep safe all of you !
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- Catherine
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4 years 1 month ago #257142 by Catherine
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Catherine on topic No ESA50 sent out but phone assessment
Hello Alison,
First of all, it could be that your real name is showing. If you want to change that there are instructions here.
My full name is showing, how can I stop it.
This gentleman is very fortunate to have you and your husband supporting him, and a well done to you both for stepping up in this way.
My recommendation is that if possible your husband helps your friend make a phone call to the DWP in the next couple of days to say that he wishes for a Mandatory Reconsideration. Then ask your friend to pass the phone over to husband who can explain the situation and say that you will help the gentleman concerned prepare additional evidence over the next couple of weeks which he will then submit.
If that is not possible then you need to write to the DWP saying more or less the same thing and get your friend to sign the letter. The DWP have the discretion to permit MRs for up to a year after the decision date, and in my experience have always allowed a little extra time when there is a good reason.
If your friend and you are willing you might wish to consider him giving you 3rd party authorisation. This will mean that in the future if you ring up the DWP regarding his case they should speak to you. The letter needs to say something like.
Letter of Authorisation
I, (friend’s name) of (his address and postcode)
National Insurance No: (his NI number) DOB: (his DOB)
Have asked (your name and address) to represent me in connection with my PIP & ESA claims with the DWP.
I authorise the DWP to supply the above representative with information about my claims.
Signed………………………………………………………………….. (Your friend’s signature)
Date………………………………………………………………………
All of that should put you in a position to do what you need to do. Even if you get him to sign that authorisation, he will need to make the request for a MR, either by phone or by signing a letter which can write for him.
When you come to prepare the additional document for the MR I highly recommend that you use our guides. UC & ESA resources
I hope that helps,
Catherine
p.s. I will be really interested if you discover whether or not he did complete an ESA form. I know a lady who says exactly the same thing – she applied for PIP and received both PIP & ESA but swears blind that she did not apply for PIP. In the same way due to medication she was almost unaware of what was happening. I became involved with a few years after her ESA started, and curiously the DWP need to produce her application as evidence they were unable to find her application form.
First of all, it could be that your real name is showing. If you want to change that there are instructions here.
My full name is showing, how can I stop it.
This gentleman is very fortunate to have you and your husband supporting him, and a well done to you both for stepping up in this way.
My recommendation is that if possible your husband helps your friend make a phone call to the DWP in the next couple of days to say that he wishes for a Mandatory Reconsideration. Then ask your friend to pass the phone over to husband who can explain the situation and say that you will help the gentleman concerned prepare additional evidence over the next couple of weeks which he will then submit.
If that is not possible then you need to write to the DWP saying more or less the same thing and get your friend to sign the letter. The DWP have the discretion to permit MRs for up to a year after the decision date, and in my experience have always allowed a little extra time when there is a good reason.
If your friend and you are willing you might wish to consider him giving you 3rd party authorisation. This will mean that in the future if you ring up the DWP regarding his case they should speak to you. The letter needs to say something like.
Letter of Authorisation
I, (friend’s name) of (his address and postcode)
National Insurance No: (his NI number) DOB: (his DOB)
Have asked (your name and address) to represent me in connection with my PIP & ESA claims with the DWP.
I authorise the DWP to supply the above representative with information about my claims.
Signed………………………………………………………………….. (Your friend’s signature)
Date………………………………………………………………………
All of that should put you in a position to do what you need to do. Even if you get him to sign that authorisation, he will need to make the request for a MR, either by phone or by signing a letter which can write for him.
When you come to prepare the additional document for the MR I highly recommend that you use our guides. UC & ESA resources
I hope that helps,
Catherine
p.s. I will be really interested if you discover whether or not he did complete an ESA form. I know a lady who says exactly the same thing – she applied for PIP and received both PIP & ESA but swears blind that she did not apply for PIP. In the same way due to medication she was almost unaware of what was happening. I became involved with a few years after her ESA started, and curiously the DWP need to produce her application as evidence they were unable to find her application form.
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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- alleycat
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4 years 1 month ago #257159 by alleycat
Replied by alleycat on topic No ESA50 sent out but phone assessment
Hello Catherine - and team,
Actual physical contact with my friend is limited - he has become extremely agoraphobic and withdrawn and only answers the door to my husband when pre-arranged.. BUT I will approach him regarding the 3rd party authorisation .. when he is strong enough to talk to me.
He is (virtually) certain he has never completed a form similar to the PIP we did and says he would have text me if he had needed to complete such a task. This morning my friend has rung DWP and said he wants a MR and I am going to write his submission asap and my husband will get it signed by our friend and post - Covid gets in the way of all these bureaucratic barriers..
On reviewing the ESA85 of January this year, that he photo-ed and text me, I note ( on pg 4 ) that the assessor states "Evidence reviewed includes the Questionnaire ,Med3, 113 and Poid2".
.
That surely means an ESA50 ( !?) and that his GP has returned a description of his issues - can he ask his GP for their submission? - and what is Poid2 ? Is it another online ID form? He is needs to forward another Medical Certificate as it is 3 months since the last one and therefore due to expire. I thought Med Certs were not needed if you have been awarded an ESA benefit?
Unfortunately the GP has only seen him once and viewed the MRI scan result, and, when asking for a home visit for his vaccination yesterday, had not record he is housebound ! - so I am sceptical they really understand his daily living physical limitations and growing mental health issues.
Before authorisation from him, can I ring "hypothetically" and ask a general question whether ESA ever use the PIP questionnaires to make their decisions.? My friend is worried that "people" will get annoyed and the WRAG benefit stopped. I have tried to reassure but obviously he cannot afford to lose his only income of £74.35.
Would ESA staff expect to be only talking about a specific claim or do they provide more general information.?
I expect your advice will be "have a go" at it all.. but I am just unsure whether any of these actions are precluded by law?
Many thanks for your prompt response and I will certainly formulate the Authorisation statement which I am sure he will agree to. He is too exhausted to deal with this himself and the prospect of completing an ESA50 fills me with dread as well.
Regards,
Alison
Actual physical contact with my friend is limited - he has become extremely agoraphobic and withdrawn and only answers the door to my husband when pre-arranged.. BUT I will approach him regarding the 3rd party authorisation .. when he is strong enough to talk to me.
He is (virtually) certain he has never completed a form similar to the PIP we did and says he would have text me if he had needed to complete such a task. This morning my friend has rung DWP and said he wants a MR and I am going to write his submission asap and my husband will get it signed by our friend and post - Covid gets in the way of all these bureaucratic barriers..
On reviewing the ESA85 of January this year, that he photo-ed and text me, I note ( on pg 4 ) that the assessor states "Evidence reviewed includes the Questionnaire ,Med3, 113 and Poid2".
.
That surely means an ESA50 ( !?) and that his GP has returned a description of his issues - can he ask his GP for their submission? - and what is Poid2 ? Is it another online ID form? He is needs to forward another Medical Certificate as it is 3 months since the last one and therefore due to expire. I thought Med Certs were not needed if you have been awarded an ESA benefit?
Unfortunately the GP has only seen him once and viewed the MRI scan result, and, when asking for a home visit for his vaccination yesterday, had not record he is housebound ! - so I am sceptical they really understand his daily living physical limitations and growing mental health issues.
Before authorisation from him, can I ring "hypothetically" and ask a general question whether ESA ever use the PIP questionnaires to make their decisions.? My friend is worried that "people" will get annoyed and the WRAG benefit stopped. I have tried to reassure but obviously he cannot afford to lose his only income of £74.35.
Would ESA staff expect to be only talking about a specific claim or do they provide more general information.?
I expect your advice will be "have a go" at it all.. but I am just unsure whether any of these actions are precluded by law?
Many thanks for your prompt response and I will certainly formulate the Authorisation statement which I am sure he will agree to. He is too exhausted to deal with this himself and the prospect of completing an ESA50 fills me with dread as well.
Regards,
Alison
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- Catherine
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4 years 1 month ago #257161 by Catherine
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Catherine on topic No ESA50 sent out but phone assessment
Hi Alison,
I am really pleased your friend has started the MR ball rolling.
The ESA85 is the report is the assessors report.
My guess is that the Questionnaire is the ESA50, but that is only a guess.
The Med3 is a fit note (aka sick note).
The 113 is a form the DWP use to ask medical practitioners questions about a claimant.
And the Poid2 is to do with the identification your friend provided.
Whilst he is in the WRAG group he will still need to provide fit notes, although at least in our area, at the moment most doctors are willing to do this without a face to face meeting.
Yes, he can request to see the letter which the GP wrote, and I suspect from what you say that might be helpful. This might come quickly from the GP, but you might find it speedier to request a copy from the DWP along with the 113, which could actually be the same thing. I would also request a copy of the questionnaire since that might reveal a lot.
Yes, you can ring the DWP and explain the situation. Say that you do not yet have signed 3rd Party Authorisation so you appreciate that they are limited to speaking in generalities. Whilst I am no fan of the DWP as an organisation I have very rarely spoken to one of their members of staff on the phone who has not been as helpful as they are able to be.
I can tell you that they do sometimes check between the two benefits, so the simple answer to your question about do they ever use PIP questionnaires to make their decisions is at least in part yes. However I think the real question you want to ask is if they ever use a PIP questionnaire to trigger an ESA claim.
I can understand your friend being concerned about annoying ‘people’, but he need not be. A benefit cannot be withdrawn just by someone or their representatives asking questions to try to ensure that the correct benefit is being paid. The logical conclusion to his logic is that anyone who challenged the DWP at tribunal would automatically lose their benefit just for trying to get it. I know a number of people who have been extremely abusive to the DWP on the phone, and whilst a particular phone may be terminated, they have not lost their benefit.
Once again I applaud you for all you are doing for your friend. If it is any consolation I find completing ESA/UC50 forms for other people, even friends much easier one which I helped a family member with. The one step separation makes an enormous difference.
As far as I know none of your proposed actions are precluded by law, and I think that answers all your questions. Please do come back to us if I have missed something, or we can help in any other way.
Catherine
I am really pleased your friend has started the MR ball rolling.
The ESA85 is the report is the assessors report.
My guess is that the Questionnaire is the ESA50, but that is only a guess.
The Med3 is a fit note (aka sick note).
The 113 is a form the DWP use to ask medical practitioners questions about a claimant.
And the Poid2 is to do with the identification your friend provided.
Whilst he is in the WRAG group he will still need to provide fit notes, although at least in our area, at the moment most doctors are willing to do this without a face to face meeting.
Yes, he can request to see the letter which the GP wrote, and I suspect from what you say that might be helpful. This might come quickly from the GP, but you might find it speedier to request a copy from the DWP along with the 113, which could actually be the same thing. I would also request a copy of the questionnaire since that might reveal a lot.
Yes, you can ring the DWP and explain the situation. Say that you do not yet have signed 3rd Party Authorisation so you appreciate that they are limited to speaking in generalities. Whilst I am no fan of the DWP as an organisation I have very rarely spoken to one of their members of staff on the phone who has not been as helpful as they are able to be.
I can tell you that they do sometimes check between the two benefits, so the simple answer to your question about do they ever use PIP questionnaires to make their decisions is at least in part yes. However I think the real question you want to ask is if they ever use a PIP questionnaire to trigger an ESA claim.
I can understand your friend being concerned about annoying ‘people’, but he need not be. A benefit cannot be withdrawn just by someone or their representatives asking questions to try to ensure that the correct benefit is being paid. The logical conclusion to his logic is that anyone who challenged the DWP at tribunal would automatically lose their benefit just for trying to get it. I know a number of people who have been extremely abusive to the DWP on the phone, and whilst a particular phone may be terminated, they have not lost their benefit.
Once again I applaud you for all you are doing for your friend. If it is any consolation I find completing ESA/UC50 forms for other people, even friends much easier one which I helped a family member with. The one step separation makes an enormous difference.
As far as I know none of your proposed actions are precluded by law, and I think that answers all your questions. Please do come back to us if I have missed something, or we can help in any other way.
Catherine
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