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PIP Lower daily living effect on Carers allowance
- nicmcc
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4 years 2 weeks ago #258113 by nicmcc
PIP Lower daily living effect on Carers allowance was created by nicmcc
I was receiving the Higher rate for both Daily living and Mobility for PIP.
This was my First PIP renewal.
In January I had a telephone assessment and asked for the report - see my posts here: www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/forum/10-dla-e...cts-self-and-my-form and www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/forum/10-dla-e...cts-self-and-my-form
There were many contradictions and things wrong - including using my previous at home face to face assessment as evidence to not increase points , but ignoring it when it would support any higher (or not reduce) points.
I did record the assessment (I know I can't use it) but it has been a great help so I know exactly happened.
The worst is the assessor not understanding (or choosng not to) that I was under mental health support because my clinical psychologist is part of the pain team. Because my physical and mental conditions make each other worse, it was decided to tackle them together (after years of treatment as 2 separate issues) it is not a good idea to have 2 competing psychological inputs at the same time and it's too much for me to do two.
The assessor (A paramedic) also put I was waiting to see the psychologist - when I have been seeing them for over 3 years and am still under them.
The gave me no points for my mental health when I previously had points for engaging other people and planning a journey.
Apparently because I spoke on the phone in my bedroom with my partner, I have no issues (my partner spoke to the assessor) I asked for reassurance and apologized to "rabbiting on" I was anxious - I made mistakes (I know this because I recorded it!).
They also reduced the points to zero for managing medication - my meds are in a dosage box and my partner has control of my hidden meds Because of my risk because of my previous suicide attempts.
They have also reduced my points to 0 for needing someone to cut up my food because of grip - because I have to "use crutches" to mobilize safely, apparently my grip is fine! I use ELBOW crutches , not crutches. I also use rails and walls.
They've reduced my preparing food from: Needs supervision or assistance to either prepare or cook a simple meal. 4 points to: Needs to use an aid or appliance to be able to either prepare or cook a simple meal. 2 points. Even though I can't bare weight and can't lift pots etc.
On the 10th of February I sent a letter (following the advice from this forum)
I confirmed it was received and on the system.
I received a letter dated 22nd March saying I was awarded:
Standard Living and Higher Mobility. I got 9 and 12 (previous 16 for each). Until July 2023.
Exactly matching the assessors report.
Apparently my descriptors have been changed due to "my change of circumstances" I was paid the higher rate until the 22nd because I would not be expected to know that the information provided would affect my award.
In some places it is word for word the assessors report.
It says I'm on medication for my mental health, but I'm not under a "specialist mental health team". So 0 for mental health. It (again copying the report) says I'm seeing my clinical physiologist for pain even though the letters from my clinical psychologist says about my Generalised Anxiety Disorder, depression and obsessive thoughts and the " complex relationship between my mental health and physical health and how the combine to make something bigger.
So I don't know if he even read my letter - he doesn't list it with the evidence in how they made the decision. And he copies the assessors mistakes which I correct in the letter - ie I'm on elbow crutches not crutches (on the tape I corrected her and as you go further through the assessors report it changes to elbow crutches)
My main Question is can my partner still get carers allowance?- its the 35 hrs part I'm worried about.
Does it matter where you are awarded points?
I can't do the things they say I now can, my partner/ carer still needs to care for me ( well over 35 hours). The only carer things they haven't taken away are getting washed and dressed - but that's not 35 hours.
I'm really worried as our benefits all come from the carers. He gets carers - then income support (he claims for me as a couple) - then rent etc. So it's not just losing some PIP its the knock on effect - I'm so scared of Universal Credit or having to be assessed repeatedly.
Also if I go for Manditory Reconsideration do I continue to receive the award while they decide or do they pause it?
I don't know what to do, because if they have read the letter, they must think that I don't have a chance / my evidence is not strong enough.
I'm also scared that they will use this "assessment to say I can do things I can not do." For other benefits.
I also am a bit angry, I was on the phone in my bed, I used notes, it was clear I was struggling. I told her I was propped up in bed with pillows, my partner spoke to her- you can hear him prompt me and calm me (although the calming part may only be heard on my recording), but you can hear me ask him things and him prompt.
Apparently I did not feel any pain during this because I did not announce it and I didn't change position because I didn't announce that either. Because I didn't make a huge deal about moving or loudly announce my pain, this is used against me to lower my points.
The face to face assessment is bad enough, but when I had one (at home) I actually got the highest award I'd ever had (this was my first/previous PIP award) I was on DLA previously.
Some things they cannot assess on the phone.
If they use the previous assessment for one physical thing then you should be able to refer to it for others (if there is no new evidence), but because mine supported my form and my needs and put me in higher rate, it was used to not to give me points where I had worsened, but then ignored as evidence where it would support me.
Sorry for such a long post.
This was my First PIP renewal.
In January I had a telephone assessment and asked for the report - see my posts here: www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/forum/10-dla-e...cts-self-and-my-form and www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/forum/10-dla-e...cts-self-and-my-form
There were many contradictions and things wrong - including using my previous at home face to face assessment as evidence to not increase points , but ignoring it when it would support any higher (or not reduce) points.
I did record the assessment (I know I can't use it) but it has been a great help so I know exactly happened.
The worst is the assessor not understanding (or choosng not to) that I was under mental health support because my clinical psychologist is part of the pain team. Because my physical and mental conditions make each other worse, it was decided to tackle them together (after years of treatment as 2 separate issues) it is not a good idea to have 2 competing psychological inputs at the same time and it's too much for me to do two.
The assessor (A paramedic) also put I was waiting to see the psychologist - when I have been seeing them for over 3 years and am still under them.
The gave me no points for my mental health when I previously had points for engaging other people and planning a journey.
Apparently because I spoke on the phone in my bedroom with my partner, I have no issues (my partner spoke to the assessor) I asked for reassurance and apologized to "rabbiting on" I was anxious - I made mistakes (I know this because I recorded it!).
They also reduced the points to zero for managing medication - my meds are in a dosage box and my partner has control of my hidden meds Because of my risk because of my previous suicide attempts.
They have also reduced my points to 0 for needing someone to cut up my food because of grip - because I have to "use crutches" to mobilize safely, apparently my grip is fine! I use ELBOW crutches , not crutches. I also use rails and walls.
They've reduced my preparing food from: Needs supervision or assistance to either prepare or cook a simple meal. 4 points to: Needs to use an aid or appliance to be able to either prepare or cook a simple meal. 2 points. Even though I can't bare weight and can't lift pots etc.
On the 10th of February I sent a letter (following the advice from this forum)
I confirmed it was received and on the system.
I received a letter dated 22nd March saying I was awarded:
Standard Living and Higher Mobility. I got 9 and 12 (previous 16 for each). Until July 2023.
Exactly matching the assessors report.
Apparently my descriptors have been changed due to "my change of circumstances" I was paid the higher rate until the 22nd because I would not be expected to know that the information provided would affect my award.
In some places it is word for word the assessors report.
It says I'm on medication for my mental health, but I'm not under a "specialist mental health team". So 0 for mental health. It (again copying the report) says I'm seeing my clinical physiologist for pain even though the letters from my clinical psychologist says about my Generalised Anxiety Disorder, depression and obsessive thoughts and the " complex relationship between my mental health and physical health and how the combine to make something bigger.
So I don't know if he even read my letter - he doesn't list it with the evidence in how they made the decision. And he copies the assessors mistakes which I correct in the letter - ie I'm on elbow crutches not crutches (on the tape I corrected her and as you go further through the assessors report it changes to elbow crutches)
My main Question is can my partner still get carers allowance?- its the 35 hrs part I'm worried about.
Does it matter where you are awarded points?
I can't do the things they say I now can, my partner/ carer still needs to care for me ( well over 35 hours). The only carer things they haven't taken away are getting washed and dressed - but that's not 35 hours.
I'm really worried as our benefits all come from the carers. He gets carers - then income support (he claims for me as a couple) - then rent etc. So it's not just losing some PIP its the knock on effect - I'm so scared of Universal Credit or having to be assessed repeatedly.
Also if I go for Manditory Reconsideration do I continue to receive the award while they decide or do they pause it?
I don't know what to do, because if they have read the letter, they must think that I don't have a chance / my evidence is not strong enough.
I'm also scared that they will use this "assessment to say I can do things I can not do." For other benefits.
I also am a bit angry, I was on the phone in my bed, I used notes, it was clear I was struggling. I told her I was propped up in bed with pillows, my partner spoke to her- you can hear him prompt me and calm me (although the calming part may only be heard on my recording), but you can hear me ask him things and him prompt.
Apparently I did not feel any pain during this because I did not announce it and I didn't change position because I didn't announce that either. Because I didn't make a huge deal about moving or loudly announce my pain, this is used against me to lower my points.
The face to face assessment is bad enough, but when I had one (at home) I actually got the highest award I'd ever had (this was my first/previous PIP award) I was on DLA previously.
Some things they cannot assess on the phone.
If they use the previous assessment for one physical thing then you should be able to refer to it for others (if there is no new evidence), but because mine supported my form and my needs and put me in higher rate, it was used to not to give me points where I had worsened, but then ignored as evidence where it would support me.
Sorry for such a long post.
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- Gary
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4 years 2 weeks ago #258135 by Gary
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gary on topic PIP Lower daily living effect on Carers allowance
Hi nic
Thank you for your post, unfortunately you are not alone.
As you have been awarded standard Daily Living component your partner will still be able to claim Carers Allowance.
The first stage to challenging a Decision is for you to request a Mandatory Reconsideration, this needs to be done in writing to the DWP, within one month of the Decision, to the office that dealt with your claim, have a look at our PIP MR & Appeal guide for details of the process, the PIP area also has template letters that you can use to make the request with.
www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/help-for-claimants/pip
You should contact the DWP for a copy of the assessment report (PA4) if you have not already done so, I would phone them but again follow up the request in writing. Once you have the assessment report you will have a better understanding of how the DWP Decision Maker has come to their conclusions and will then be able to argue against them.
I usually use a highlighter to highlight any inaccuracies, once you have gone through the report you then set out why you are applying for a MR and go through each descriptor one at a time, why you disagree with the assessor and try and match it with any supporting documents you may have sent in.
Understand that the assessor is offering an opinion when they say that you can do the PIP activities, tackling these head-on is unlikely to be successful, you need to show that the basis of that opinion is founded on incorrect information, so try and refer to your evidence to undermine what they have said.
Also, try and stick to issues that lead to your scoring points, I often hear members referring to the assessors spelling, as an example, whilst it may show a lack of professionalism, raising it as an issue isn't going to help you get an award.
Your primary task is to show that you meet the criteria, there are many reasons you may have failed, you need to address each of these but don't get bogged down in criticising the assessment report unless you can clearly show that it is incorrect, it is a lot easier to argue the facts of the situation;
Lastly, make sure that you understand the criteria that you are being assessed against you can put the best case forward that is possible but you won't score points if you do not meet the PIP Descriptors.
If your condition has not changed or has deteriorated since you last sent in a form then mention it.
When you have a better idea of the issues with your claim, come back to the forum and we will do our best to help.
Gary
Thank you for your post, unfortunately you are not alone.
As you have been awarded standard Daily Living component your partner will still be able to claim Carers Allowance.
The first stage to challenging a Decision is for you to request a Mandatory Reconsideration, this needs to be done in writing to the DWP, within one month of the Decision, to the office that dealt with your claim, have a look at our PIP MR & Appeal guide for details of the process, the PIP area also has template letters that you can use to make the request with.
www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/help-for-claimants/pip
You should contact the DWP for a copy of the assessment report (PA4) if you have not already done so, I would phone them but again follow up the request in writing. Once you have the assessment report you will have a better understanding of how the DWP Decision Maker has come to their conclusions and will then be able to argue against them.
I usually use a highlighter to highlight any inaccuracies, once you have gone through the report you then set out why you are applying for a MR and go through each descriptor one at a time, why you disagree with the assessor and try and match it with any supporting documents you may have sent in.
Understand that the assessor is offering an opinion when they say that you can do the PIP activities, tackling these head-on is unlikely to be successful, you need to show that the basis of that opinion is founded on incorrect information, so try and refer to your evidence to undermine what they have said.
Also, try and stick to issues that lead to your scoring points, I often hear members referring to the assessors spelling, as an example, whilst it may show a lack of professionalism, raising it as an issue isn't going to help you get an award.
Your primary task is to show that you meet the criteria, there are many reasons you may have failed, you need to address each of these but don't get bogged down in criticising the assessment report unless you can clearly show that it is incorrect, it is a lot easier to argue the facts of the situation;
Lastly, make sure that you understand the criteria that you are being assessed against you can put the best case forward that is possible but you won't score points if you do not meet the PIP Descriptors.
If your condition has not changed or has deteriorated since you last sent in a form then mention it.
When you have a better idea of the issues with your claim, come back to the forum and we will do our best to help.
Gary
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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