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PIP new application after tribunal win
- sarahloe
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4 years 1 week ago #258539 by sarahloe
PIP new application after tribunal win was created by sarahloe
Hi was just looking for clarification on advice I saw on a support group.
I know after a tribunal award you are asked to make a new claim and you can use your tribunal award as evidence.
But I read that if your new claim isn't successful the DWP have to show how you have improved since your last award to justify them downgrading your PIP.
I know this is normal practise for a renewal but I didn't think it would be used for a new claim.
Can anyone clarify this point?
I know after a tribunal award you are asked to make a new claim and you can use your tribunal award as evidence.
But I read that if your new claim isn't successful the DWP have to show how you have improved since your last award to justify them downgrading your PIP.
I know this is normal practise for a renewal but I didn't think it would be used for a new claim.
Can anyone clarify this point?
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- LL26
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4 years 6 days ago #258564 by LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by LL26 on topic PIP new application after tribunal win
Hi bluemoon,
You are right! Just to put this into context- there has recently been much debate about this issue in the Upper Tribunal. It is all to do with the right to having a fair trial, and transparent legal process.
If you were a tribunal member, dealing with what you thought was an initial pip claim, and had no history of any DLA or ESA etc. You have read an assessor's report giving nil points. You are simply not sure that the claimant's disabilities are as bad as alleged. Easy decision. Accept assessor and DWP and confirm no points. Alternatively you have read the negative assessor's comments and then become aware that the claimant has had a long history of disability benefits. The latter scenario is likely to change your mind, and potentially award benefit. The evidence of previous benefits shows continued disability and will give a starting level for this. It is unfair for DWP not to provide this information, and it is very misleading for the tribunal. It will be noted that as part of the tribunal rules dwp have a duty to supply all relevant information. So...Needless to say the Upper Tribunal has made several rulings that stipulate that previous disability benefit awards, whether same or different are all relevant and should be disclosed.
If you go to tribunal, then the tribunal will also have to explain any discrepancy in previous awards. (Even if DWP hasn't!)
If you have had eg a previous PIP award, and on some form of review DWP remove or reduce the award this is called a supersession. The law requires that in these cases it is now for DWP to prove that an actual change of circumstances has taken place (Eg you have actually got better, and it's not just an opinion of an assessor .) DWP will have to prove the exact date this change took place too! If DWP can't prove both these then the previous award will still stand.
I hope this helps.
LL26
You are right! Just to put this into context- there has recently been much debate about this issue in the Upper Tribunal. It is all to do with the right to having a fair trial, and transparent legal process.
If you were a tribunal member, dealing with what you thought was an initial pip claim, and had no history of any DLA or ESA etc. You have read an assessor's report giving nil points. You are simply not sure that the claimant's disabilities are as bad as alleged. Easy decision. Accept assessor and DWP and confirm no points. Alternatively you have read the negative assessor's comments and then become aware that the claimant has had a long history of disability benefits. The latter scenario is likely to change your mind, and potentially award benefit. The evidence of previous benefits shows continued disability and will give a starting level for this. It is unfair for DWP not to provide this information, and it is very misleading for the tribunal. It will be noted that as part of the tribunal rules dwp have a duty to supply all relevant information. So...Needless to say the Upper Tribunal has made several rulings that stipulate that previous disability benefit awards, whether same or different are all relevant and should be disclosed.
If you go to tribunal, then the tribunal will also have to explain any discrepancy in previous awards. (Even if DWP hasn't!)
If you have had eg a previous PIP award, and on some form of review DWP remove or reduce the award this is called a supersession. The law requires that in these cases it is now for DWP to prove that an actual change of circumstances has taken place (Eg you have actually got better, and it's not just an opinion of an assessor .) DWP will have to prove the exact date this change took place too! If DWP can't prove both these then the previous award will still stand.
I hope this helps.
LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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- denby
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4 years 6 days ago #258577 by denby
Replied by denby on topic PIP new application after tribunal win
Hi, before I go 'WOW' just double checking, you say, 'some form of review', would this include a normal end-of-given-award-period [eg 3 years], renewal application?
If I have understood this correctly this is mind-blowing. So daughter having had Enhanced x 2 since 2014, when we get to the end of the current award, they could not downgrade her if her conditions [therefore abilities to do descriptor activities] are as bad as ever and DWP cannot prove otherwise???
Thanks, Denby
If I have understood this correctly this is mind-blowing. So daughter having had Enhanced x 2 since 2014, when we get to the end of the current award, they could not downgrade her if her conditions [therefore abilities to do descriptor activities] are as bad as ever and DWP cannot prove otherwise???
Thanks, Denby
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- ANGELA
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4 years 5 days ago #258632 by ANGELA
Replied by ANGELA on topic PIP new application after tribunal win
Thanks for your question... I’m doing a ‘new’ application atm as my last PIP (Review) Award (5 years E/E) was a Tribunal win. The UT judge asked the DWP why they hadn’t taken my previous DLA Awards into account ..
I’ve given a ‘Claims History’ list this time, including lengths of previous awards..
*May I also suggest you do a SARS request... I found out that my ‘first’ PIP award was for 5 years. The DWP had always referred to it as a 2 year award; even on the Award Letter !!
Having proof of this helped me get a ‘second’ 5 year award.
Their left hand does not know what their right hand is doing. Remembering that takes a lot of the emotion away for me. The whole system is totally broken.
I’ve given a ‘Claims History’ list this time, including lengths of previous awards..
*May I also suggest you do a SARS request... I found out that my ‘first’ PIP award was for 5 years. The DWP had always referred to it as a 2 year award; even on the Award Letter !!
Having proof of this helped me get a ‘second’ 5 year award.
Their left hand does not know what their right hand is doing. Remembering that takes a lot of the emotion away for me. The whole system is totally broken.
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- LL26
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4 years 5 days ago - 4 years 5 days ago #258658 by LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by LL26 on topic PIP new application after tribunal win
Just to answer some comments here.
DWP can instigate a review at any time. Normally this is towards the end if an award period, and is effectively a renewal.
It is possible to have an in-award review. This could be instigated if DWP thinks some sort of fraud is happening, or more likely, you've just had an assessment on your ESA awarding nil points so you won't need PIP anymore!
But these reviews can occur at anytime.
Whilst it may not be lawful for DWP to revise an award (supersede) reducing it or cancelling it, you will still have to convince them, and more likely than not this will have to be done via MR and then tribunal. The law concerning supetsessions is very complicated!
Hope this clarifies things.
LL26
DWP can instigate a review at any time. Normally this is towards the end if an award period, and is effectively a renewal.
It is possible to have an in-award review. This could be instigated if DWP thinks some sort of fraud is happening, or more likely, you've just had an assessment on your ESA awarding nil points so you won't need PIP anymore!
But these reviews can occur at anytime.
Whilst it may not be lawful for DWP to revise an award (supersede) reducing it or cancelling it, you will still have to convince them, and more likely than not this will have to be done via MR and then tribunal. The law concerning supetsessions is very complicated!
Hope this clarifies things.
LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Last edit: 4 years 5 days ago by LL26. Reason: Spelling
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- denby
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4 years 5 days ago #258669 by denby
Replied by denby on topic PIP new application after tribunal win
Thank you; hardly surprising they will use any method including trying to avoid the law. Now I am wondering whether quoting this would be a good or a counter-productive [by getting up their noses so inviting resistance] tactic!
I would like to know over coming months whether any of the people on here who eg work for CAB and similar do try it for their clients, and what the result was. Maybe dear MODS, one to suggest to the splendid backroom people?
Thanks, Denby
I would like to know over coming months whether any of the people on here who eg work for CAB and similar do try it for their clients, and what the result was. Maybe dear MODS, one to suggest to the splendid backroom people?
Thanks, Denby
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