- Posts: 16
× Members
PIP tribunal any advice appreciated
- Mystery666
- Topic Author
- Offline
Less More
4 years 4 days ago #258675 by Mystery666
PIP tribunal any advice appreciated was created by Mystery666
Hi all
Any advice appreciated. I have just got my mandatory reconsideration back and scored zero again on both components. I managed to get my son enhanced/enhanced award by MR thanks in part to all the information on here. So obviously I intend to now to tribunal, I am a member and have looked at all the guides over a period of time and have a reasonable understanding but I struggle to take things in, so if anyone can offer any specific pointers that would be helpful. Also where and how to search for relevant case law? I’ve found some but it’s difficult to search through to find anyone with similar conditions. Also evidence suggestions as all I had was letters from consultants, I asked my GP to write but he refused, I was going to submit a letter from my partner, as someone who is caring for me.
The main conditions I listed on my claim were:
Fibromyalgia
IBS with incontinence
Asthma (but also possibly COPD according to a consultant but waiting for lung function test)
Chondromalacia Patella (knee pain)
So any specific advice relating to any of those conditions or case law on any of those would be helpful. And any advice on what else I could do for evidence as obviously I’m not really being believed so far!
Any advice appreciated. I have just got my mandatory reconsideration back and scored zero again on both components. I managed to get my son enhanced/enhanced award by MR thanks in part to all the information on here. So obviously I intend to now to tribunal, I am a member and have looked at all the guides over a period of time and have a reasonable understanding but I struggle to take things in, so if anyone can offer any specific pointers that would be helpful. Also where and how to search for relevant case law? I’ve found some but it’s difficult to search through to find anyone with similar conditions. Also evidence suggestions as all I had was letters from consultants, I asked my GP to write but he refused, I was going to submit a letter from my partner, as someone who is caring for me.
The main conditions I listed on my claim were:
Fibromyalgia
IBS with incontinence
Asthma (but also possibly COPD according to a consultant but waiting for lung function test)
Chondromalacia Patella (knee pain)
So any specific advice relating to any of those conditions or case law on any of those would be helpful. And any advice on what else I could do for evidence as obviously I’m not really being believed so far!
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- denby
- Away
Less More
- Posts: 1305
4 years 3 days ago #258683 by denby
Replied by denby on topic PIP tribunal any advice appreciated
Hi Julia, no doubt the Mods will add more when they are on shift. In the meantime, when you have 4 variable conditions a diary is as good as evidence can get. There's a template in the guide, or make your own table in a document programme. I did that and put comments specifically referencing descriptors in the last column.
Bear in mind this from B&W for each thing:
Reliably means to a reasonable standard.
In a timely fashion means in less than twice the time it would take for an individual without any impairment.
Repeatedly means completed as often during the day as the individual activity requires. Consideration needs to be given to the cumulative effects of symptoms such as pain and fatigue – i.e. whether completing the activity adversely affects the individual’s ability to subsequently complete other activities.
Safely means in a fashion that is unlikely to cause harm to the individual, either directly or through vulnerability to the actions of others; or to another person.
Also, presumably you have got a prescription repeat slip or similar evidence of meds. I included a page from NHS website on Tramadol which our daughter [who has fm and other conditions] has for pain, demonstrating that it is for severe pain after the assessor had tried to say it was moderate pain. So similar info on your various meds might contribute.
As regards the possible COPD, the issue is what the effect on your daily living and mobility was at the time you applied, not a later new condition. So if it is COPD it would be helpful if the Dr will state he/she believes it has been the cause of your symptoms for a considerable time, ie before your form date.
Hope all this is of some help, Denby
Bear in mind this from B&W for each thing:
Reliably means to a reasonable standard.
In a timely fashion means in less than twice the time it would take for an individual without any impairment.
Repeatedly means completed as often during the day as the individual activity requires. Consideration needs to be given to the cumulative effects of symptoms such as pain and fatigue – i.e. whether completing the activity adversely affects the individual’s ability to subsequently complete other activities.
Safely means in a fashion that is unlikely to cause harm to the individual, either directly or through vulnerability to the actions of others; or to another person.
Also, presumably you have got a prescription repeat slip or similar evidence of meds. I included a page from NHS website on Tramadol which our daughter [who has fm and other conditions] has for pain, demonstrating that it is for severe pain after the assessor had tried to say it was moderate pain. So similar info on your various meds might contribute.
As regards the possible COPD, the issue is what the effect on your daily living and mobility was at the time you applied, not a later new condition. So if it is COPD it would be helpful if the Dr will state he/she believes it has been the cause of your symptoms for a considerable time, ie before your form date.
Hope all this is of some help, Denby
The following user(s) said Thank You: Mystery666
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- LL26
- Offline
Less More
- Posts: 1480
4 years 3 days ago #258684 by LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by LL26 on topic PIP tribunal any advice appreciated
Hi Julie,
All the PIP descriptors give rise to points on the basis of loss of function. It doesn't particularly matter what ailment you have, the crux is what loss of function it gives you. So, have a think about each of the descriptors. Can you do all of the activities in each section? How do you do them? Can you do them safely and repeatedly and in a reasonable time and also to an acceptable standard? What problems do you have?
So, to give an example, it doesn't matter whether a bad leg prevents you walking 20m or it is breathlessness or kidney pain, the most important thing is to describe how your particular condition/s affect you, and how they might interact. Of you want to search caselaw, then search by descriptor.
There is a lot of interesting caselaw here:
pipinfo.net/
There is also some information about certain medical conditions.
If you wish to refer to caselaw, make sure you really understand what the case is stating. Some caselaw is confusing. Also be aware that whatever case you wish to quote that it is up to date. New cases are decided all the time and this can mean that another case may have altered the law.
You will need to send in a SSCS1 form, which can be completed online. You will need the date of the Reconsideration decision and the address.
Under grounds of appeal, you can just say you disagree with the lack of points
awarded, and then go through each relevant descriptor and explain how many points and why. Sometimes it is easier to type this in Word, save as a document and upload it, as the typing box isn't very suitable for a lengthy explanation. (The formatting means everything can come out as a huge paragraph no gaps!)
If you need a medical report from the GP, and he refuses this, you can always ask for a copy of your notes. You have a right to have a copy. A small fee might be required. You should write in and ask for the notes.
A letter from a relative or friend who can comment on the difficulties you have attempting the descriptor activities is also likely to help.
I hope this all helps. Good luck.
LL26
All the PIP descriptors give rise to points on the basis of loss of function. It doesn't particularly matter what ailment you have, the crux is what loss of function it gives you. So, have a think about each of the descriptors. Can you do all of the activities in each section? How do you do them? Can you do them safely and repeatedly and in a reasonable time and also to an acceptable standard? What problems do you have?
So, to give an example, it doesn't matter whether a bad leg prevents you walking 20m or it is breathlessness or kidney pain, the most important thing is to describe how your particular condition/s affect you, and how they might interact. Of you want to search caselaw, then search by descriptor.
There is a lot of interesting caselaw here:
pipinfo.net/
There is also some information about certain medical conditions.
If you wish to refer to caselaw, make sure you really understand what the case is stating. Some caselaw is confusing. Also be aware that whatever case you wish to quote that it is up to date. New cases are decided all the time and this can mean that another case may have altered the law.
You will need to send in a SSCS1 form, which can be completed online. You will need the date of the Reconsideration decision and the address.
Under grounds of appeal, you can just say you disagree with the lack of points
awarded, and then go through each relevant descriptor and explain how many points and why. Sometimes it is easier to type this in Word, save as a document and upload it, as the typing box isn't very suitable for a lengthy explanation. (The formatting means everything can come out as a huge paragraph no gaps!)
If you need a medical report from the GP, and he refuses this, you can always ask for a copy of your notes. You have a right to have a copy. A small fee might be required. You should write in and ask for the notes.
A letter from a relative or friend who can comment on the difficulties you have attempting the descriptor activities is also likely to help.
I hope this all helps. Good luck.
LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
The following user(s) said Thank You: Mystery666
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Mystery666
- Topic Author
- Offline
Less More
- Posts: 16
4 years 3 days ago #258688 by Mystery666
Replied by Mystery666 on topic PIP tribunal any advice appreciated
Thanks for your advice really appreciated. Do you need to submit the evidence to appeal online or can you post it after? Could I send photos as evidence?
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- BIS
- Offline
Less More
- Posts: 8966
4 years 2 days ago #258720 by BIS
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by BIS on topic PIP tribunal any advice appreciated
Hi Julie
They like you to submit the appeal online, but some things may need to be sent by post. Yes, you can send photographs.
BIS
They like you to submit the appeal online, but some things may need to be sent by post. Yes, you can send photographs.
BIS
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
The following user(s) said Thank You: Mystery666
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Mystery666
- Topic Author
- Offline
Less More
- Posts: 16
4 years 2 days ago #258721 by Mystery666
Replied by Mystery666 on topic PIP tribunal any advice appreciated
Thanks for that. Stupid me, I have accidently submitted the appeal online without finishing the parts about what i disagree with, the way it read I though I could go back and add more later but it seems I cant add more to that section. What should I do?
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
Moderators: Gordon, Gary, BIS, Catherine, Wendy, Kelly, greekqueen, peter, Katherine, Super User, Chris, David