- Posts: 1480
× Members
Advice on starting a PIP claim
- LL26
- Offline
Less More
3 years 10 months ago #260134 by LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by LL26 on topic Advice on starting a PIP claim
Hi Jonathan T,
I don't think it is necessarily a problem to attach extra sheets, but clearly state your name, NI Number on each sheet, and put 'see attached sheet' in the relevant box. perhaps number the sheets, so you can put 'see sheet 1' or 'see sheet 2' etc as appropriate.
I think it would be helpful to include a copy of your diagnosis with the form. You can refer to it if this would help too. As can happen, your diagnosis was rather late in life, so presumably you/family must have noticed difficulties, or aspects of life that didn't seem to work as smoothly as for other people. It might therefore be useful to include why you ended up having an assessment for Autism so recently.
In a recent tribunal case that I was involved with a young man who had been diagnosed with autistic spectrum disorder originally failed to score any points because the assessor clearly had no understanding of this condition. (She was a physiotherapist!) This assessor simply kept repeating the young man 'had no mental health condition'. as justification of her views. The Tribunal said this was misguided as the assessor had simply focussed on diagnosis rather than on how the young man's various conditions impacted on his ability to carry out descriptor activities.This claimant had never asserted he had any mental health condition and the tribunal said 'rather he has complex developmental and behaviourial disorders that impact on his ability to carry out every day tasks of the type considered by the descriptors'.
I have always thought this wording was very useful, and something that people with ASC could adapt to include on their own form. (You could say 'I have ASC - this is NOT a mental health my ability to carry out every day tasks of the type considered by the descriptors', and then describe using as many examples as possible to illustrate the problems you have. The members guides will give you further help.
Good luck!
LL26
I don't think it is necessarily a problem to attach extra sheets, but clearly state your name, NI Number on each sheet, and put 'see attached sheet' in the relevant box. perhaps number the sheets, so you can put 'see sheet 1' or 'see sheet 2' etc as appropriate.
I think it would be helpful to include a copy of your diagnosis with the form. You can refer to it if this would help too. As can happen, your diagnosis was rather late in life, so presumably you/family must have noticed difficulties, or aspects of life that didn't seem to work as smoothly as for other people. It might therefore be useful to include why you ended up having an assessment for Autism so recently.
In a recent tribunal case that I was involved with a young man who had been diagnosed with autistic spectrum disorder originally failed to score any points because the assessor clearly had no understanding of this condition. (She was a physiotherapist!) This assessor simply kept repeating the young man 'had no mental health condition'. as justification of her views. The Tribunal said this was misguided as the assessor had simply focussed on diagnosis rather than on how the young man's various conditions impacted on his ability to carry out descriptor activities.This claimant had never asserted he had any mental health condition and the tribunal said 'rather he has complex developmental and behaviourial disorders that impact on his ability to carry out every day tasks of the type considered by the descriptors'.
I have always thought this wording was very useful, and something that people with ASC could adapt to include on their own form. (You could say 'I have ASC - this is NOT a mental health my ability to carry out every day tasks of the type considered by the descriptors', and then describe using as many examples as possible to illustrate the problems you have. The members guides will give you further help.
Good luck!
LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
The following user(s) said Thank You: Kras83
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Kras83
- Topic Author
- Offline
Less More
- Posts: 27
3 years 10 months ago #260165 by Kras83
Replied by Kras83 on topic Advice on starting a PIP claim
Thanks for the advice. I plan to print out a copy of my report as its the best evidence I have. You are right in that I have had difficulties life long, and with 20:20 hindsight the signs of autism are obvious going back through things like school, but because I didn't struggle academically despite frequent illness I think things were never seen as the issue that they were to me.
I plan to use the guide and work through it providing as much detail as I can. Part of the problem for me is that a lot of my issues have been covered up by having my parents to rely on as I have never lived independently from them, and its only in the last couple of years since discovering how far things really go that I have started to understand how much I rely on those around me. Its a bit of a rude shock to be honest when the penny dropped.
I plan to use the guide and work through it providing as much detail as I can. Part of the problem for me is that a lot of my issues have been covered up by having my parents to rely on as I have never lived independently from them, and its only in the last couple of years since discovering how far things really go that I have started to understand how much I rely on those around me. Its a bit of a rude shock to be honest when the penny dropped.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Gary
- Offline
Less More
- Posts: 8436
3 years 10 months ago #260166 by Gary
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gary on topic Advice on starting a PIP claim
Hi Jonathan T
Take your time to go through the guide carefully when answering the questions on the form.
You can ask those around you if they can write you a supporting letter as to what support they provide for you and why, they will need to sign the letter and put their name and address on it.
if you have any further questions whilst completing the form then do come back to the forum and ask.
Gary
Take your time to go through the guide carefully when answering the questions on the form.
You can ask those around you if they can write you a supporting letter as to what support they provide for you and why, they will need to sign the letter and put their name and address on it.
if you have any further questions whilst completing the form then do come back to the forum and ask.
Gary
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
The following user(s) said Thank You: Kras83
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Kras83
- Topic Author
- Offline
Less More
- Posts: 27
3 years 10 months ago #260221 by Kras83
Replied by Kras83 on topic Advice on starting a PIP claim
Hi, I have been going through the different activities and the criteria using your guide and any information I could find on other websites that relate to autism and have any PIP info. I think I understand most of the things where I may score points, mostly in relation to needing prompting to do things such cook, eat etc (I get fixated on what I am doing sometimes and will carry on rather than go eat until someone reminds me).
I had a question about the mixing with other people activity as I feel that I could potentially score 4 or even 8 points here. What is meant by 'overwhelming psychological distress'?
Specific to my situation I have always really struggled in social situations and find them extremely draining. Since I was only diagnosed with Autism during the pandemic most of my examples come from before when it was assumed that I was just depressed and suffering from generalised anxiety. Back then it was encouraged for me to try and face social situations to get over the fear as part of CBT, so I would sometimes try and force myself to endure them as I thought it was 'therapeutic'. On a rare very good day when I was in a position to attempt to engage socially I would for example go in to the local Warhammer store to see if anything new was happening locally that I might be interested in. I generally handle social situations by rehearsing in my head what to say and what sort of reaction it might get. This works fine if the encounter is something like "Could I have this bread sliced please?" but quickly becomes very complicated in a more comprehensive conversation. What then happens is that I attempt to keep up with a conversation while at the same time trying to predict where it is going. This very quickly becomes exhausting and I struggle to keep up and make some kind of mistake that my mind then leaps on and obsesses over, so I end up with yet another parallel thread running telling me what an embarrassing idiot I am, and another desperately trying to find a way to end the encounter without making me look like a wierdo.
The problem I am having relating to the definition of 'overwhelming psychological distress' is do they mean 'The person very obviously breaks down or has a meltdown right there on the spot' or does a more gradual but inevitable spiral towards single syllable answers and partial shutdown count? I almost always need quiet time to myself after interacting with people, and in that time I tend to go over and over the encounter in my head, picking it apart berating myself if I consider that I have done or said something 'abnormal'. It is not uncommon for me to end up with negative intrusive thoughts for some time as part of the aftermath, and have been known to sink into quite a deep depression.
Thanks for reading and sorry if its a bit much or hard to answer.
I had a question about the mixing with other people activity as I feel that I could potentially score 4 or even 8 points here. What is meant by 'overwhelming psychological distress'?
Specific to my situation I have always really struggled in social situations and find them extremely draining. Since I was only diagnosed with Autism during the pandemic most of my examples come from before when it was assumed that I was just depressed and suffering from generalised anxiety. Back then it was encouraged for me to try and face social situations to get over the fear as part of CBT, so I would sometimes try and force myself to endure them as I thought it was 'therapeutic'. On a rare very good day when I was in a position to attempt to engage socially I would for example go in to the local Warhammer store to see if anything new was happening locally that I might be interested in. I generally handle social situations by rehearsing in my head what to say and what sort of reaction it might get. This works fine if the encounter is something like "Could I have this bread sliced please?" but quickly becomes very complicated in a more comprehensive conversation. What then happens is that I attempt to keep up with a conversation while at the same time trying to predict where it is going. This very quickly becomes exhausting and I struggle to keep up and make some kind of mistake that my mind then leaps on and obsesses over, so I end up with yet another parallel thread running telling me what an embarrassing idiot I am, and another desperately trying to find a way to end the encounter without making me look like a wierdo.
The problem I am having relating to the definition of 'overwhelming psychological distress' is do they mean 'The person very obviously breaks down or has a meltdown right there on the spot' or does a more gradual but inevitable spiral towards single syllable answers and partial shutdown count? I almost always need quiet time to myself after interacting with people, and in that time I tend to go over and over the encounter in my head, picking it apart berating myself if I consider that I have done or said something 'abnormal'. It is not uncommon for me to end up with negative intrusive thoughts for some time as part of the aftermath, and have been known to sink into quite a deep depression.
Thanks for reading and sorry if its a bit much or hard to answer.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Kras83
- Topic Author
- Offline
Less More
- Posts: 27
3 years 10 months ago #260247 by Kras83
Replied by Kras83 on topic Advice on starting a PIP claim
I feel like my previous post was a little bit of a ramble. What my question boils down to is whether there is known criteria for what they consider to be "overwhelming psychological distress", and whether some delay in feeling the full effects of that distress (due to time taken to process) means it is still valid.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Catherine
- Offline
Less More
- Posts: 1252
3 years 10 months ago #260256 by Catherine
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Catherine on topic Advice on starting a PIP claim
Hello Jonathan,
Your previous post was actually really helpful in that it painted the picture to the sort of issue you might have with face to face interactions. The most useful help I have found to the matter you raise in your question comes from an Upper Tribunal Decision.
AB v Secretary of State for Work and Pensions – [2017] UKUT 217 (AAC) [CPIP/3656/2016]. The judge said (in paragraph 42) ‘…It seems to me that descriptor 9(d) implicitly envisages that the claimant makes or has made efforts to engage with other people but those efforts have proved unsuccessful either because the claimant’s consequent psychological distress is so great that he cannot continue, at least on more 50% of the days in the required period….or because the claimant’s behaviour gives rise to a substantial risk of harm. If the claimant is able to overcome the obstacles to engagement with the assistance of social support, even if he experiences psychological distress in doing so, he will satisfy descriptor 9(c). … ‘ assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5...PIP_3656_2016-00.pdf
Everyone is different, but I hope that gives a bit of a clue as to how the DWP might consider this activity.
Please do come back to us if you have any more questions.
Catherine
Your previous post was actually really helpful in that it painted the picture to the sort of issue you might have with face to face interactions. The most useful help I have found to the matter you raise in your question comes from an Upper Tribunal Decision.
AB v Secretary of State for Work and Pensions – [2017] UKUT 217 (AAC) [CPIP/3656/2016]. The judge said (in paragraph 42) ‘…It seems to me that descriptor 9(d) implicitly envisages that the claimant makes or has made efforts to engage with other people but those efforts have proved unsuccessful either because the claimant’s consequent psychological distress is so great that he cannot continue, at least on more 50% of the days in the required period….or because the claimant’s behaviour gives rise to a substantial risk of harm. If the claimant is able to overcome the obstacles to engagement with the assistance of social support, even if he experiences psychological distress in doing so, he will satisfy descriptor 9(c). … ‘ assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5...PIP_3656_2016-00.pdf
Everyone is different, but I hope that gives a bit of a clue as to how the DWP might consider this activity.
Please do come back to us if you have any more questions.
Catherine
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
The following user(s) said Thank You: Rosemary Clayson, denby, Kras83
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
Moderators: Gordon, Gary, BIS, Catherine, Wendy, Kelly, greekqueen, peter, Katherine, Super User, Chris, David