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Intermitent mentl heath and PIP
- Jim123
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3 years 8 months ago #262176 by Jim123
Intermitent mentl heath and PIP was created by Jim123
Hello - i have mental health problems and awarded the higher rate PIP(15 points) well over two years ago. Earlier this year my medication was altered which over a number of months has shown imrovements to my day to day living such that during these periods points for activities would be significantly reduced, possibly below the lower rate of 8 points. However for the next month i still find i need help and support - taking me over the 8 points. I would estimate for 6 or 7 months i need help and support and 5 or 6 months i don't . My condition seems to increase then diminish increase then diminish. Am i entitled to continue making a claim for pip on the basis of my intermitent condition.
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- LL26
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3 years 8 months ago #262181 by LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by LL26 on topic Intermitent mentl heath and PIP
Hi Jim,
The short answer to your question is maybe yes maybe no! You will need to think a little bit more about timings and how you do the various activities.
Let me explain further...
You can be entitled to PIP points if you can not do a descriptor activity for the majority of days. This is Regulation 7 PIP Regs. 2013. What this means is that if you can not do the activity for even part of a day that will count as a day towards the majority.
When considering whether you can/can't do the activity you need to consider 4 criteria- all 4 have to be met.
Safety
Acceptable standard
Repetition
Reasonable time
In order to determine whether you are still eligible think about the risks of the activity. Cooking is an obvious example. If you can cook, but always end up burning yourself, it is unlikely to be safe. Consider whether is a risk. For example someone who has fits may not have these very often, but a fit whilst bathing or cooking could cause very serious injury. An injury whilst dressing is possible but less likely. However, in all three examples if there was a risk of substantial harm, albeit not likely to happen often, points could still be awarded.
Thinks about what supervision or support you might need, perhaps everyday, even though you feel OK, because your condition might just deteriorate even fir a small part of the day.
Next consider whether an onlooker would think you have completed the activity appropriately. The onlooker wouldn't think someone has dressed properly if he has managed to get all his clothes on, but the shirt is inside out and under the vest!
Can you do each activity as often as required throughout the day? Dressing and cooking may not be done many times, but managing toilet needs or communication will occur many more times.
Lastly, if the activity takes more than twice the time that people without disabilities might take, then the activity can't be done.
These criteria can of course overlap.
Another point to consider, is that you can aggregate activities within one descriptor area. So if let's say you can do descriptor 1b for 35% and 1d for 30% of days this will be over 50% when added and you can score the points which applies most often, or the highest value if 2 activities apply equally.
So, PIP points are never as simple as can you do this? I suspect that given a full analysis bearing in mind all of the above, you may well still qualify for PIP at some level. If your analysis reveals lesser or no entitlement then you must inform DWP immediately when you think this reduction has occurred. If you do not, then you are likely to have been overpaid, and lay yourself open to a fraud charge. That said, I don't think it is inappropriate to wait a short while before contacting DWP. If you had knee surgery even though the surgeon says everything went well, I doubt you would be telling everyone the next day that you can now walk several miles. However, you might do so after 3 or 4 weeks, when it is clear that there have been no hidden complications.
DWP are notoriously bad at applying the above rules. But if you need to fill out a review form then you can say 'for the majority of days I can't...'and explain why. This may not work with DWP, but Tribunal should sort this out if required.
I hope this clarifies how PIP is awarded.
LL26
The short answer to your question is maybe yes maybe no! You will need to think a little bit more about timings and how you do the various activities.
Let me explain further...
You can be entitled to PIP points if you can not do a descriptor activity for the majority of days. This is Regulation 7 PIP Regs. 2013. What this means is that if you can not do the activity for even part of a day that will count as a day towards the majority.
When considering whether you can/can't do the activity you need to consider 4 criteria- all 4 have to be met.
Safety
Acceptable standard
Repetition
Reasonable time
In order to determine whether you are still eligible think about the risks of the activity. Cooking is an obvious example. If you can cook, but always end up burning yourself, it is unlikely to be safe. Consider whether is a risk. For example someone who has fits may not have these very often, but a fit whilst bathing or cooking could cause very serious injury. An injury whilst dressing is possible but less likely. However, in all three examples if there was a risk of substantial harm, albeit not likely to happen often, points could still be awarded.
Thinks about what supervision or support you might need, perhaps everyday, even though you feel OK, because your condition might just deteriorate even fir a small part of the day.
Next consider whether an onlooker would think you have completed the activity appropriately. The onlooker wouldn't think someone has dressed properly if he has managed to get all his clothes on, but the shirt is inside out and under the vest!
Can you do each activity as often as required throughout the day? Dressing and cooking may not be done many times, but managing toilet needs or communication will occur many more times.
Lastly, if the activity takes more than twice the time that people without disabilities might take, then the activity can't be done.
These criteria can of course overlap.
Another point to consider, is that you can aggregate activities within one descriptor area. So if let's say you can do descriptor 1b for 35% and 1d for 30% of days this will be over 50% when added and you can score the points which applies most often, or the highest value if 2 activities apply equally.
So, PIP points are never as simple as can you do this? I suspect that given a full analysis bearing in mind all of the above, you may well still qualify for PIP at some level. If your analysis reveals lesser or no entitlement then you must inform DWP immediately when you think this reduction has occurred. If you do not, then you are likely to have been overpaid, and lay yourself open to a fraud charge. That said, I don't think it is inappropriate to wait a short while before contacting DWP. If you had knee surgery even though the surgeon says everything went well, I doubt you would be telling everyone the next day that you can now walk several miles. However, you might do so after 3 or 4 weeks, when it is clear that there have been no hidden complications.
DWP are notoriously bad at applying the above rules. But if you need to fill out a review form then you can say 'for the majority of days I can't...'and explain why. This may not work with DWP, but Tribunal should sort this out if required.
I hope this clarifies how PIP is awarded.
LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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