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DWP fail to provide evidence for Tribunal
- Valerie
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3 years 8 months ago #263036 by Valerie
DWP fail to provide evidence for Tribunal was created by Valerie
Hi, and apologies if this has been answered before, but I couldn't find anything using Search.
On 01/06/2021 I had my ESA appeal heard by telephone. The judge directed DWP to provide more evidence and directed them to supply this within 28 days. DWP failed this deadline. I contacted HMCTS for advice and they then gave DWP a further 14 days to respond. DWP failed this deadline again, albeit by 1 day.
DWP say they can't provide the information requested by the judge because a) physical evidence has been destroyed and b) system records are not available. This is information that I have previously submitted to DWP sometimes three times over.
The Independent Case Examiner has upheld my complaints against DWP.
I now need to respond to HMCTS and would like some help please.
Are there any templates or info as to the best way to do this on the lines that cite DWP have failed yet again, and thus I request tribunal find in my favour? Maybe referencing case law or something?
Thanks for any help to point me in the right direction.
On 01/06/2021 I had my ESA appeal heard by telephone. The judge directed DWP to provide more evidence and directed them to supply this within 28 days. DWP failed this deadline. I contacted HMCTS for advice and they then gave DWP a further 14 days to respond. DWP failed this deadline again, albeit by 1 day.
DWP say they can't provide the information requested by the judge because a) physical evidence has been destroyed and b) system records are not available. This is information that I have previously submitted to DWP sometimes three times over.
The Independent Case Examiner has upheld my complaints against DWP.
I now need to respond to HMCTS and would like some help please.

Thanks for any help to point me in the right direction.
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- LL26
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3 years 8 months ago #263069 by LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by LL26 on topic DWP fail to provide evidence for Tribunal
Hi Valerie,
I feel your frustration!
The Tribunal Procedure (First-Tier Tribunal) (Social Entitlement Chamber) Rules 2008
Require that DWP provide the evidence, normally the appeal bundle within 28days. Thus is rule 24(4)b. Late evidence could be excluded although this rarely occurs in practice.
Under rule 2 there is an overriding objective of fairness. This applies to both parties, which is why seldom is evidence struck out. However there is also a duty on each party to cooperate with the tribunal. On that basis you are required to submit the relevant paperwork as much as you can.
The relevance of the paperwork may be more significant depending what type of appeal you are doing?
Is this an Overpayment, a new claim or a renewal. If a new claim, claimant needs to show limited capability for work or work related activity. Overpayment, DWP has to prove. Renewal claim is likely to be a suoersession, ie where DWP change benefit after a change of circumstances. (This could be DWP just saying its a change! But if they allege then DWP have to prove an actual change of circumstances not just a new assessment report!)
If DWP doesn't produce sufficient evidence to prove the case then you should win! But you still need to cooperate with the tribunal.
There is no set format for a letter, but clearly mark your name, NI number, appeal reference and you could include ESA Appeal. Name and NI needs to be on all pages perhaps as a footnote.
I don't think that since the evidence actually comes from you that the case can simply bd found in your favour without a hearing but try something like this...edit per square brackets
Dear Sirs,
On [several occasions] DWP have failed to produce [X]
I have made a formal complaint to ICE which was upheld.
DWP have failed to produce the paperwork required per rule 24(4)b. This has caused considerable delay. [ list]
[you may wish to explain more here, this is a supersession version, but you could amend it to work with a new claim]
eg
This paperwork is fundamental for my case. DWP assert that I no longer qualify as having LCWRA and have removed my ESA. I have long term disabilities X which preclude me from being able to work because...
The attitude of DWP throughout this matter has been very negative. The reluctance of DWP to produce the correct paperwork, as required by law confirms this ongoing negativity.
[Assuming you want the documents in, otherwise just request the case goes ahead without, saying DWP has had plenty of time to produce and if they don't the case just proceeds.]
Since I have retained a copy of the documents, I forwarded these, as I have a duty to cooperate with the tribunal.
I would be grateful that the case is now listed as a matter of urgency, and that DWP'S non compliance is noted. It is in the interest of fairness and in accordance with the overriding objective thst the case proceeds without further delay.
I hope this works
LL26
I feel your frustration!
The Tribunal Procedure (First-Tier Tribunal) (Social Entitlement Chamber) Rules 2008
Require that DWP provide the evidence, normally the appeal bundle within 28days. Thus is rule 24(4)b. Late evidence could be excluded although this rarely occurs in practice.
Under rule 2 there is an overriding objective of fairness. This applies to both parties, which is why seldom is evidence struck out. However there is also a duty on each party to cooperate with the tribunal. On that basis you are required to submit the relevant paperwork as much as you can.
The relevance of the paperwork may be more significant depending what type of appeal you are doing?
Is this an Overpayment, a new claim or a renewal. If a new claim, claimant needs to show limited capability for work or work related activity. Overpayment, DWP has to prove. Renewal claim is likely to be a suoersession, ie where DWP change benefit after a change of circumstances. (This could be DWP just saying its a change! But if they allege then DWP have to prove an actual change of circumstances not just a new assessment report!)
If DWP doesn't produce sufficient evidence to prove the case then you should win! But you still need to cooperate with the tribunal.
There is no set format for a letter, but clearly mark your name, NI number, appeal reference and you could include ESA Appeal. Name and NI needs to be on all pages perhaps as a footnote.
I don't think that since the evidence actually comes from you that the case can simply bd found in your favour without a hearing but try something like this...edit per square brackets
Dear Sirs,
On [several occasions] DWP have failed to produce [X]
I have made a formal complaint to ICE which was upheld.
DWP have failed to produce the paperwork required per rule 24(4)b. This has caused considerable delay. [ list]
[you may wish to explain more here, this is a supersession version, but you could amend it to work with a new claim]
eg
This paperwork is fundamental for my case. DWP assert that I no longer qualify as having LCWRA and have removed my ESA. I have long term disabilities X which preclude me from being able to work because...
The attitude of DWP throughout this matter has been very negative. The reluctance of DWP to produce the correct paperwork, as required by law confirms this ongoing negativity.
[Assuming you want the documents in, otherwise just request the case goes ahead without, saying DWP has had plenty of time to produce and if they don't the case just proceeds.]
Since I have retained a copy of the documents, I forwarded these, as I have a duty to cooperate with the tribunal.
I would be grateful that the case is now listed as a matter of urgency, and that DWP'S non compliance is noted. It is in the interest of fairness and in accordance with the overriding objective thst the case proceeds without further delay.
I hope this works
LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
The following user(s) said Thank You: an ex nurse, Valerie
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- Valerie
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3 years 8 months ago #263077 by Valerie
Replied by Valerie on topic DWP fail to provide evidence for Tribunal
Hi LL26,
Thanks very much for your time to send me this full reply. I really appreciate it!
In a nutshell, the appeal is against DWP failing to implement changes I notified them about, thus leading to an overpayment. The evidence they say they no longer have concerns bank statements that I submitted at their request.......bundles of them!
So the onus is now on DWP to prove the overpayment? I didn't know this and therefore that is probably why the judge directed DWP to provide such a detailed list of evidence (including the letter from ICE)......and nothing from me. My direction was only to comment on what DWP had supplied, once I'd received a copy of it.
Thank you for the letter suggestion - it's really good and says what I wanted to say, but was struggling with brain fog!
Do you think it'd go against me if I don't send in the raft of bank statements to tribunal? I'd have to copy everything again and can't face doing so, to be honest....Also, I imagine a judge wouldn't have the time to look at them or correlate the info on them with DWP decisions, nor should they have to really, because as you rightly say, it's up to DWP to prove.
Is there anything else I should consider?
Thanks again for your help with this, I'm very grateful
Thanks very much for your time to send me this full reply. I really appreciate it!

In a nutshell, the appeal is against DWP failing to implement changes I notified them about, thus leading to an overpayment. The evidence they say they no longer have concerns bank statements that I submitted at their request.......bundles of them!
So the onus is now on DWP to prove the overpayment? I didn't know this and therefore that is probably why the judge directed DWP to provide such a detailed list of evidence (including the letter from ICE)......and nothing from me. My direction was only to comment on what DWP had supplied, once I'd received a copy of it.
Thank you for the letter suggestion - it's really good and says what I wanted to say, but was struggling with brain fog!

Do you think it'd go against me if I don't send in the raft of bank statements to tribunal? I'd have to copy everything again and can't face doing so, to be honest....Also, I imagine a judge wouldn't have the time to look at them or correlate the info on them with DWP decisions, nor should they have to really, because as you rightly say, it's up to DWP to prove.
Is there anything else I should consider?
Thanks again for your help with this, I'm very grateful



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- LL26
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3 years 8 months ago #263097 by LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by LL26 on topic DWP fail to provide evidence for Tribunal
Hi Valerie,
DWP needs to prove on balance of probabilities. Is this a failure to disclose or misrepresentation? If you give me some more info I may be able to help further. Bear with me though, I'm on a boat, so I can only respond when we're not sailing.
Overpayments usually have to be repaid unless you can show official error. This could be that you notified them and they failed to act.
There are various scenarios I will quickly go through
1. You notified at the beginning/when a change took place and DWP ignored. Should be all official error nothing is recoverable.
2 You notified at a later stage. Initial money is recoverable and nothing after the subsequent notification that DWP ignored.
3. No notification at all, obviously all money is recoverable
4. DWP found out part way through the overpayment period. This could be a cross match with HMRC or notification from a 3rd party. Initial payments will be recoverable. Anything after DWP gained knowledge will break causation chain and won't be recoverable. The case is GJ v SSWP. Will send reference later. As long as someone at DWP knows it will break the chain. DWP have a duty to check EVERY payment is lawful.
Also consider that DWP may not have calculated correctly. Check all the payments.
Are there any offsets, eg where you should have been paid other benefits or maybe SDP etc and none was paid. This will reduce overpayments/ recoverable amounts.
There are issues of proof concerning whether its fail disclose or misrepresentation as legally these concern different possibilities.
Send me a briefly explanation of the problem and I'll see what I can do to help
You may also wish to make a Subjevt Access Request. Ask for all the ESA papers, all print outs, claim forms, contact sheets, and any other ESA documents held on system. I'm sure that you will find useful nuggets of info
I hope this helps.
LL26
DWP needs to prove on balance of probabilities. Is this a failure to disclose or misrepresentation? If you give me some more info I may be able to help further. Bear with me though, I'm on a boat, so I can only respond when we're not sailing.
Overpayments usually have to be repaid unless you can show official error. This could be that you notified them and they failed to act.
There are various scenarios I will quickly go through
1. You notified at the beginning/when a change took place and DWP ignored. Should be all official error nothing is recoverable.
2 You notified at a later stage. Initial money is recoverable and nothing after the subsequent notification that DWP ignored.
3. No notification at all, obviously all money is recoverable
4. DWP found out part way through the overpayment period. This could be a cross match with HMRC or notification from a 3rd party. Initial payments will be recoverable. Anything after DWP gained knowledge will break causation chain and won't be recoverable. The case is GJ v SSWP. Will send reference later. As long as someone at DWP knows it will break the chain. DWP have a duty to check EVERY payment is lawful.
Also consider that DWP may not have calculated correctly. Check all the payments.
Are there any offsets, eg where you should have been paid other benefits or maybe SDP etc and none was paid. This will reduce overpayments/ recoverable amounts.
There are issues of proof concerning whether its fail disclose or misrepresentation as legally these concern different possibilities.
Send me a briefly explanation of the problem and I'll see what I can do to help
You may also wish to make a Subjevt Access Request. Ask for all the ESA papers, all print outs, claim forms, contact sheets, and any other ESA documents held on system. I'm sure that you will find useful nuggets of info
I hope this helps.
LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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