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PIP-AR1 - The extent of 'Cannot' + link query p71 + the dissed 1 point p44
- twinkerzzz
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1 year 5 months ago #280872 by twinkerzzz
PIP-AR1 - The extent of 'Cannot' + link query p71 + the dissed 1 point p44 was created by twinkerzzz
Hi
1.
Im getting confused about the way to apply the 'cannot' absolute in activity descriptors.
So 2 examples confusing me:
Mixing with other people: descriptor:
9d. Cannot engage with other people .....
and
Talking, listening and understanding:
7e. Cannot express or understand verbal information at all even with communication support.
Is the 'cannot' for both the above a reference to a permanent never changing state of cannot which exists at all times
OR
a temporal episode where 'cannot' occurs and predominates for a period of time
OR
can 'cannot' apply to both contexts ?
2.
p71 theres a paragraph titled 'Important note' in red ink but the link doesn't seem to lead to a further detailed explainer of the case only a generic bnw PIP page .... or am i missing something ?
3. Managing your treatments - Top of p44 - The 2nd paragraph states explicitly that the 1 point awarded for descriptor (iii) supervision, prompting or assistance to be able to monitor a health condition. 1 point can never get you over the line from standard to enchanced rate of daily living PIP.
But is that really true ? Because in 2017 that happened to me in a manditory reconsideration where my daily living award did increase whilst the award of 1 point remained the same so i am wondering if in fact all points count, even the 1 point here ?
Surely it can act as the single point which gets you to 9 and above much like any other points awarded ?
Sorry a bit pedantic ! But may be it's true ?
thanks re any answers to all 3
sp
1.
Im getting confused about the way to apply the 'cannot' absolute in activity descriptors.
So 2 examples confusing me:
Mixing with other people: descriptor:
9d. Cannot engage with other people .....
and
Talking, listening and understanding:
7e. Cannot express or understand verbal information at all even with communication support.
Is the 'cannot' for both the above a reference to a permanent never changing state of cannot which exists at all times
OR
a temporal episode where 'cannot' occurs and predominates for a period of time
OR
can 'cannot' apply to both contexts ?
2.
p71 theres a paragraph titled 'Important note' in red ink but the link doesn't seem to lead to a further detailed explainer of the case only a generic bnw PIP page .... or am i missing something ?
3. Managing your treatments - Top of p44 - The 2nd paragraph states explicitly that the 1 point awarded for descriptor (iii) supervision, prompting or assistance to be able to monitor a health condition. 1 point can never get you over the line from standard to enchanced rate of daily living PIP.
But is that really true ? Because in 2017 that happened to me in a manditory reconsideration where my daily living award did increase whilst the award of 1 point remained the same so i am wondering if in fact all points count, even the 1 point here ?
Surely it can act as the single point which gets you to 9 and above much like any other points awarded ?
Sorry a bit pedantic ! But may be it's true ?
thanks re any answers to all 3
sp
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- Gordon
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1 year 5 months ago #280900 by Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gordon on topic PIP-AR1 - The extent of 'Cannot' + link query p71 + the dissed 1 point p44
twinkerzzz
1. The "cannot" has to take into account the reliability criteria and the majority of days, in regard to the latter, my personal opinion is that you will need to show a percentage significantly higher than just the 51% to qualify.
2. I've looked and I cannot resolve the link either nor can I track the article it refers to, however, from the context of the paragraph this link is relevant to claimants who on earlier assessments did not score as high as they may have. I don't think there is any relevance to claimants undertaking a reassessment now.
3. For the one point to be of value the claimant must have also scored three points for Washing and Bathing.
Gordon
1. The "cannot" has to take into account the reliability criteria and the majority of days, in regard to the latter, my personal opinion is that you will need to show a percentage significantly higher than just the 51% to qualify.
2. I've looked and I cannot resolve the link either nor can I track the article it refers to, however, from the context of the paragraph this link is relevant to claimants who on earlier assessments did not score as high as they may have. I don't think there is any relevance to claimants undertaking a reassessment now.
3. For the one point to be of value the claimant must have also scored three points for Washing and Bathing.
Gordon
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- twinkerzzz
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1 year 5 months ago #280930 by twinkerzzz
Replied by twinkerzzz on topic PIP-AR1 - The extent of 'Cannot' + link query p71 + the dissed 1 point p44
thanks @ Gordon
Re: where you stated - 3. For the one point to be of value the claimant must have also scored three points for Washing and Bathing.
I don't understand your answer. Any one point awarded in 'Managing your treatment - activity 3' is always accumilative in that it is added to the total points awarded for all actvities 1-10 to produce the final qualifying points. Therefore the 1 point is valid and can contribute to the total points awarded for daily living so as to get you to 8 points or above. The first 3 activities are never assessed to the exclusion of activites 4-10. Am i right in this ? And if so then the 1 point statement p44 has to be wrong ?
HOWEVER, that said; i think the 1 point clause in activity 3 is there to capture all those who do not detail properly,even where it occurs, qualification for 3c-3f which are relatively anomoulous/specific to this activity alone, in terms of descriptor definitions. So maybe the warning around 1 point isn't that it doesn't contribute, but rather that it may not be the one that applies and that it lessens your chances of getting qualifying total points. I also think it acts to give an assessor some indication of the extent to which an applicant is able to properly supply answers or not and if a 'marking down 'strategy can be applied elsewhere..... but maybe that's a bit conspiratorial ?
sp
Re: where you stated - 3. For the one point to be of value the claimant must have also scored three points for Washing and Bathing.
I don't understand your answer. Any one point awarded in 'Managing your treatment - activity 3' is always accumilative in that it is added to the total points awarded for all actvities 1-10 to produce the final qualifying points. Therefore the 1 point is valid and can contribute to the total points awarded for daily living so as to get you to 8 points or above. The first 3 activities are never assessed to the exclusion of activites 4-10. Am i right in this ? And if so then the 1 point statement p44 has to be wrong ?
HOWEVER, that said; i think the 1 point clause in activity 3 is there to capture all those who do not detail properly,even where it occurs, qualification for 3c-3f which are relatively anomoulous/specific to this activity alone, in terms of descriptor definitions. So maybe the warning around 1 point isn't that it doesn't contribute, but rather that it may not be the one that applies and that it lessens your chances of getting qualifying total points. I also think it acts to give an assessor some indication of the extent to which an applicant is able to properly supply answers or not and if a 'marking down 'strategy can be applied elsewhere..... but maybe that's a bit conspiratorial ?
sp
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- Gordon
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1 year 5 months ago #280948 by Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gordon on topic PIP-AR1 - The extent of 'Cannot' + link query p71 + the dissed 1 point p44
twinkerzzz
With the exception of Bathing and Medication all of the other Descriptors score in even numbers so if you score for only one of the above, then you might score 7 which is not enough for an award or 11 which misses the Enhanced one. Scores of 9 or 13 are irrelevant as an award results anyway.
In these circumstances, you can only get the points for an award when both are scored, for example; 2+2+3+1 .
Gordon
With the exception of Bathing and Medication all of the other Descriptors score in even numbers so if you score for only one of the above, then you might score 7 which is not enough for an award or 11 which misses the Enhanced one. Scores of 9 or 13 are irrelevant as an award results anyway.
In these circumstances, you can only get the points for an award when both are scored, for example; 2+2+3+1 .
Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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