- Posts: 13
- Forum
- Members forums
- ESA, PIP and DLA Queries and Results
- Advice about trying self employment while on LCWRA+PIP
× Members
Advice about trying self employment while on LCWRA+PIP
- AVMSurvivor
- Topic Author
- Offline
Less More
7 months 3 weeks ago #289737 by AVMSurvivor
Advice about trying self employment while on LCWRA+PIP was created by AVMSurvivor
Hi everyone. Unfortunately "the services" are messing me around as usual so I can't think anywhere else to go for advice.
I am on UC LCWRA and PIP.
I am in an unusual situation where doing some little work could actually be seriously beneficial to my health but could also turn to a total disaster.
At the moment I'm battling to get relevant documentation of my health issues - much documentation is missing, and even evidence that was submitted DWP often refuse to accept, and my health has changed since my claim started - so to me that seems the most important first step - to get enough documentation that DWP cannot dispute. Also I should have scored higher on some activities which would more strongly match my current situation but when I got enough points to survive after numerous MR's I gave up. But now that could be a major issue as I did not get enough points for various relevant activities.
But that makes me wonder even if I finally get that documentation - my claim is not up for review for a while. But if I don't give that documentation all I can expect is to be told I am fully fit for work just because I have tried a little something (or that because numerous issues were not accepted my DWP that means my work plans do not perfectly match what DWP did assess), benefits withdrawn, then months of no money/MR etc which will not be a great start when I'm already financially struggling and really could do with more money to help me get started.
Is there some way or procedure to explain this and give documentation to DWP to allow me a smooth transition to try a little work (if I ever get documentation), or do I have to wait and see if benefits get stopped and somehow survive for months until MR?
Then my next hurdles - seems for what I want to do, only viable way would be to register self employed, but I've never done that before so it is a major minefield for me. I am wondering how this would work with the benefit system?
I can imagine I could attend jobs that fail so I end up not getting paid, while I could attend other jobs that pay fairly well. But even for the successful jobs, I could need to spend a lot of time researching to prepare as my skills are out of date. I can easily understand say I did 1 hour work and got paid £20 that is easy to explain. But what happens if say I did one failed job for an hour so got nothing (but had to pay to travel), then I did another successful job for one hour, but I needed to spend two hours to prepare - would I be declaring all the hours, or just the hours I got payed for?
Then another big issue - the trade I want to work in luckily aligns with hobbies of mine. If I spend a lot of time reading up with no actual job in mind, is that still deemed as working hours even if there is no payment involved (except maybe tiny expenses incurred)?
Then another major issue - I have seen the threshold of allowable income before the taper rate kicks in. I would have to incur expenses to do anything. Would those expenses be deducted from income for DWP purposes so if I earnt say £200 in a month but had to spent £100 to allow me to work, I would only actually really earn £100?
Then another issue linked to the last question. If for example I started and earnt £100 this month, then next month spent £500 on work expenses but did not earn a penny, then the month afterwards I earned £300, and month 4 I earned £200, would that mean for month 1 my income is considered £100, then for the next 3 months income is £0 because it only clears expenses, or does any deduction of expenses against income only work on a monthly basis?
Not a major issue - but if things are considered monthly, would that month start date be the calendar month start, start of me registering self employed, when my UC claim started, or my PIP claim started, or even another date?
Another question - I am sure I read for the first year of self employment, people do not need to make more than the minimum income floor, but after the first year people need to be above the minimum income floor. Is this the same if people are starting work whilst on disability benefits?
And my final question (what makes me most scared). I am badly struggling with regular admin and paperwork. I worry that trying to also deal with self employed admin could make me totally crash. I am assuming I would need to give monthly income/expenses to DWP for this to work? If I fail to give documentation on time would the DWP give any allowance or would I be very badly stuck?
I am on UC LCWRA and PIP.
I am in an unusual situation where doing some little work could actually be seriously beneficial to my health but could also turn to a total disaster.
At the moment I'm battling to get relevant documentation of my health issues - much documentation is missing, and even evidence that was submitted DWP often refuse to accept, and my health has changed since my claim started - so to me that seems the most important first step - to get enough documentation that DWP cannot dispute. Also I should have scored higher on some activities which would more strongly match my current situation but when I got enough points to survive after numerous MR's I gave up. But now that could be a major issue as I did not get enough points for various relevant activities.
But that makes me wonder even if I finally get that documentation - my claim is not up for review for a while. But if I don't give that documentation all I can expect is to be told I am fully fit for work just because I have tried a little something (or that because numerous issues were not accepted my DWP that means my work plans do not perfectly match what DWP did assess), benefits withdrawn, then months of no money/MR etc which will not be a great start when I'm already financially struggling and really could do with more money to help me get started.
Is there some way or procedure to explain this and give documentation to DWP to allow me a smooth transition to try a little work (if I ever get documentation), or do I have to wait and see if benefits get stopped and somehow survive for months until MR?
Then my next hurdles - seems for what I want to do, only viable way would be to register self employed, but I've never done that before so it is a major minefield for me. I am wondering how this would work with the benefit system?
I can imagine I could attend jobs that fail so I end up not getting paid, while I could attend other jobs that pay fairly well. But even for the successful jobs, I could need to spend a lot of time researching to prepare as my skills are out of date. I can easily understand say I did 1 hour work and got paid £20 that is easy to explain. But what happens if say I did one failed job for an hour so got nothing (but had to pay to travel), then I did another successful job for one hour, but I needed to spend two hours to prepare - would I be declaring all the hours, or just the hours I got payed for?
Then another big issue - the trade I want to work in luckily aligns with hobbies of mine. If I spend a lot of time reading up with no actual job in mind, is that still deemed as working hours even if there is no payment involved (except maybe tiny expenses incurred)?
Then another major issue - I have seen the threshold of allowable income before the taper rate kicks in. I would have to incur expenses to do anything. Would those expenses be deducted from income for DWP purposes so if I earnt say £200 in a month but had to spent £100 to allow me to work, I would only actually really earn £100?
Then another issue linked to the last question. If for example I started and earnt £100 this month, then next month spent £500 on work expenses but did not earn a penny, then the month afterwards I earned £300, and month 4 I earned £200, would that mean for month 1 my income is considered £100, then for the next 3 months income is £0 because it only clears expenses, or does any deduction of expenses against income only work on a monthly basis?
Not a major issue - but if things are considered monthly, would that month start date be the calendar month start, start of me registering self employed, when my UC claim started, or my PIP claim started, or even another date?
Another question - I am sure I read for the first year of self employment, people do not need to make more than the minimum income floor, but after the first year people need to be above the minimum income floor. Is this the same if people are starting work whilst on disability benefits?
And my final question (what makes me most scared). I am badly struggling with regular admin and paperwork. I worry that trying to also deal with self employed admin could make me totally crash. I am assuming I would need to give monthly income/expenses to DWP for this to work? If I fail to give documentation on time would the DWP give any allowance or would I be very badly stuck?
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- BIS
- Away
Less More
- Posts: 8392
7 months 3 weeks ago #289741 by BIS
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by BIS on topic Advice about trying self employment while on LCWRA+PIP
Hi AVMSurvivor
I hear your frustration in trying to get information, but I'm going to add to it because some of your questions are outside the scope of this forum. I will try to give you the information I have.
You need to speak to a specialist welfare advisor who can tell you about the impact of taking any kind of part-time employment and what will happen if you cannot do it. I have attached a link for you to investigate what services are available in your area.
advicelocal.uk/
As far as your PIP is concerned, you do not have to tell the DWP that you are trying for a job or that you have started one. However, you do have to inform them if your health has improved to the point where you may not be entitled to the same level award. Only you know the answer to that; from what you've said, it has not improved.
I would be wary of ever thinking that you can provide documentation that the DWP cannot dispute - because the DWP is capable of disputing anything and often overrules or ignores evidence from expert health professionals who have actually treated a claimant. I'm not saying that you shouldn't try to gather additional up-to-date evidence - I'm just saying that as hard as you may try, there is no certainty that the DWP will draw the conclusion you want.
Regarding your UC
If a Universal Credit claimant, who has been found to have a Limited Capability for Work (or Work Related Activity), starts work they do not lose their Limited Capability for Work status (although the fact that they are managing to work will be taken into account next time it is assessed).
In fact, those who work and have a Limited Capability for Work can have a higher work allowance
There's no limit on hours but note that the hours worked, and the type of work undertaken, could influence any decision on your
LCWA status when reviewed.
As you are in the LCWRA group, you would be eligible for the 'Work Allowance' regardless of the number of hours you work.
If working does not work out, you can apply for a rapid re-claim and would he be placed back in the LCWRA group?
There is a rapid reclaim system if you find you cannot continue to work - but you need to talk to a specialist advisor or your work coach about this.
That's as much information as I have - and I took this advice from a similar post that Gary answered.
BIS
I hear your frustration in trying to get information, but I'm going to add to it because some of your questions are outside the scope of this forum. I will try to give you the information I have.
You need to speak to a specialist welfare advisor who can tell you about the impact of taking any kind of part-time employment and what will happen if you cannot do it. I have attached a link for you to investigate what services are available in your area.
advicelocal.uk/
As far as your PIP is concerned, you do not have to tell the DWP that you are trying for a job or that you have started one. However, you do have to inform them if your health has improved to the point where you may not be entitled to the same level award. Only you know the answer to that; from what you've said, it has not improved.
I would be wary of ever thinking that you can provide documentation that the DWP cannot dispute - because the DWP is capable of disputing anything and often overrules or ignores evidence from expert health professionals who have actually treated a claimant. I'm not saying that you shouldn't try to gather additional up-to-date evidence - I'm just saying that as hard as you may try, there is no certainty that the DWP will draw the conclusion you want.
Regarding your UC
If a Universal Credit claimant, who has been found to have a Limited Capability for Work (or Work Related Activity), starts work they do not lose their Limited Capability for Work status (although the fact that they are managing to work will be taken into account next time it is assessed).
In fact, those who work and have a Limited Capability for Work can have a higher work allowance
There's no limit on hours but note that the hours worked, and the type of work undertaken, could influence any decision on your
LCWA status when reviewed.
As you are in the LCWRA group, you would be eligible for the 'Work Allowance' regardless of the number of hours you work.
If working does not work out, you can apply for a rapid re-claim and would he be placed back in the LCWRA group?
There is a rapid reclaim system if you find you cannot continue to work - but you need to talk to a specialist advisor or your work coach about this.
That's as much information as I have - and I took this advice from a similar post that Gary answered.
BIS
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
The following user(s) said Thank You: AVMSurvivor
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- adam33
- Offline
Less More
- Posts: 50
7 months 3 weeks ago #289747 by adam33
Replied by adam33 on topic Advice about trying self employment while on LCWRA+PIP
I'll chime with self employment info
if you spend more than you earn in a month then you can carry the loss over the following months until it's used up, and yes only your profit counts, any expenses are deducted from the gross
it sounds like you might have an existing claim but local welfare rights tell me that DWP are supposed to backdate the work allowance on a new claim once LCW/LCWRA is granted, but they mostly don't
and I think if you earn more than 16 hours at min wage in your first month of claim then your income goes down then there is some kind of penalty, but i think this is new claims only once again, can't remember the name of it now
if you spend more than you earn in a month then you can carry the loss over the following months until it's used up, and yes only your profit counts, any expenses are deducted from the gross
it sounds like you might have an existing claim but local welfare rights tell me that DWP are supposed to backdate the work allowance on a new claim once LCW/LCWRA is granted, but they mostly don't
and I think if you earn more than 16 hours at min wage in your first month of claim then your income goes down then there is some kind of penalty, but i think this is new claims only once again, can't remember the name of it now
The following user(s) said Thank You: AVMSurvivor
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
Moderators: Gordon, Gary, BIS, Catherine, Wendy, Kelly, greekqueen, peter, Katherine, Super User, Chris, David