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Disregarded Earnings and Permanent Health Insurance for ESA
- sharonuk
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2 months 1 week ago #294534 by sharonuk
Disregarded Earnings and Permanent Health Insurance for ESA was created by sharonuk
Hello, I'm hoping someone can help clarify a few things for me.
I used to live in Australia and was injured at work. I am receiving an income from the insurer in the form of:
Weekly payments to support my recovery and lost earnings due to my injury
Medical and rehabilitation expenses that are reasonably necessary to help me recover.
The payments are made regardless of my employment status and have nothing to do with the termination of employment. The only thing that determines whether I receive the income is my capacity for work, which is assessed by an Australian doctor every 28 days.
Initially, my payments were paid through my employer's payroll, but they illegally terminated my employment after 3 months (the law prohibits them ending the employment within 6 months of the claim).
Since then, the insurer pays me directly, exactly the same amount as before. My income is subject to income tax, the same as if I were still employed and all of my documents from the insurer continue to state my ex employer as “employer”.
The policy is in their name and I did not contribute to the insurance premiums. It is a legal requirement for businesses in Australia to have workers compensation insurance
There isn't really a like for like system in the UK as far as I am aware, so I am confused about what these payments should be considered as. They could be classified as either:
- Earnings derived from Employment
- Permanent Health Insurance
If it is considered Earnings, DMG Chapter 49 states:
49017 [See DMG Memo 08/20] Earnings do not include
3. payments made for periods when an employee is on maternity leave, ordinary and additional paternity leave, adoption leave, shared parental leave or is away from work due to illness
49018 The words “derived from” mean having their origins in. Payments made for past or present employment should be treated as earnings, unless they are excluded under DMG 49017
If it is considered Personal Health Insurance, and therefore treated as a pension for ESA purposes, it should be disregarded based on DMG Chapter 51:
In connection with the coming to an end of the employment:
51790 A pension must be paid in connection with the end of employment of the person who it is paid for, to fall within DMG 51768. Occupational or public service pensions that are paid where the employment has not ended do not fall within DMG 51768. For example, war pensions paid
- Because of disablement and
- Regardless of whether the employment is continuing.
And:
Insurance policy providing benefits in connection with physical or mental illness or
disability
51798 A payment under a permanent health insurance policy is a pension payment for the purposes of ESA(Cont). It means any periodical payment
- made to a former employee and
- which was arranged by an employer under an insurance policy and
- which provides benefts to the former employee in connection with physical or mental illness or disability and
- Is payable on the termination of employment.
In both situations, I believe my income should be disregarded. If earnings, they are excluded under 49017. If they are pension/permanent health insurance payments, they should be disregarded under 51790. They also don't meet the requirements under 51798 as they aren't payable on termination.
ESA are making deductions based on my income which I believe is wrong but I would really like some confirmation from someone that knows more about this than me!
If anyone can confirm whether I am correct in thinking they shouldn't be deducting from my ESA payments, it would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you!
I used to live in Australia and was injured at work. I am receiving an income from the insurer in the form of:
Weekly payments to support my recovery and lost earnings due to my injury
Medical and rehabilitation expenses that are reasonably necessary to help me recover.
The payments are made regardless of my employment status and have nothing to do with the termination of employment. The only thing that determines whether I receive the income is my capacity for work, which is assessed by an Australian doctor every 28 days.
Initially, my payments were paid through my employer's payroll, but they illegally terminated my employment after 3 months (the law prohibits them ending the employment within 6 months of the claim).
Since then, the insurer pays me directly, exactly the same amount as before. My income is subject to income tax, the same as if I were still employed and all of my documents from the insurer continue to state my ex employer as “employer”.
The policy is in their name and I did not contribute to the insurance premiums. It is a legal requirement for businesses in Australia to have workers compensation insurance
There isn't really a like for like system in the UK as far as I am aware, so I am confused about what these payments should be considered as. They could be classified as either:
- Earnings derived from Employment
- Permanent Health Insurance
If it is considered Earnings, DMG Chapter 49 states:
49017 [See DMG Memo 08/20] Earnings do not include
3. payments made for periods when an employee is on maternity leave, ordinary and additional paternity leave, adoption leave, shared parental leave or is away from work due to illness
49018 The words “derived from” mean having their origins in. Payments made for past or present employment should be treated as earnings, unless they are excluded under DMG 49017
If it is considered Personal Health Insurance, and therefore treated as a pension for ESA purposes, it should be disregarded based on DMG Chapter 51:
In connection with the coming to an end of the employment:
51790 A pension must be paid in connection with the end of employment of the person who it is paid for, to fall within DMG 51768. Occupational or public service pensions that are paid where the employment has not ended do not fall within DMG 51768. For example, war pensions paid
- Because of disablement and
- Regardless of whether the employment is continuing.
And:
Insurance policy providing benefits in connection with physical or mental illness or
disability
51798 A payment under a permanent health insurance policy is a pension payment for the purposes of ESA(Cont). It means any periodical payment
- made to a former employee and
- which was arranged by an employer under an insurance policy and
- which provides benefts to the former employee in connection with physical or mental illness or disability and
- Is payable on the termination of employment.
In both situations, I believe my income should be disregarded. If earnings, they are excluded under 49017. If they are pension/permanent health insurance payments, they should be disregarded under 51790. They also don't meet the requirements under 51798 as they aren't payable on termination.
ESA are making deductions based on my income which I believe is wrong but I would really like some confirmation from someone that knows more about this than me!
If anyone can confirm whether I am correct in thinking they shouldn't be deducting from my ESA payments, it would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you!
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- David
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2 months 1 week ago #294536 by David
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by David on topic Disregarded Earnings and Permanent Health Insurance for ESA
Hi sharonuk,
Are you receiving payments of Conts based ESA or did you have to claim New Style ESA after Conts based ESA was withdrawn?
As far as Conts based ESA is concerned the rules that apply to your Health Insurance income can be found here in the actual legislation The Employment and Support Allowance Regulations 2008.
www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2008/794/part/9/chapter/2
You say that you did not personally contribute to the health insurance premium, so the calculation would be as per the regs. 74 (1)(c)
c)the amount of the payment, or payments when taken together, exceeds—
(i)if the period in question is a week, £85.00; or
(ii)if that period is not a week, such proportion of the amount mentioned in paragraph (i) as falls to be
calculated in accordance with regulation 94(1) or (6) (calculation of weekly amount of income),
the amount of that allowance is to be reduced by an amount equal to 50% of the excess.
Here is a link to New Style ESA and I think the deduction will be the same.
data.parliament.uk/DepositedPapers/Files...only_claims_V6.0.pdf
David
Are you receiving payments of Conts based ESA or did you have to claim New Style ESA after Conts based ESA was withdrawn?
As far as Conts based ESA is concerned the rules that apply to your Health Insurance income can be found here in the actual legislation The Employment and Support Allowance Regulations 2008.
www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2008/794/part/9/chapter/2
You say that you did not personally contribute to the health insurance premium, so the calculation would be as per the regs. 74 (1)(c)
c)the amount of the payment, or payments when taken together, exceeds—
(i)if the period in question is a week, £85.00; or
(ii)if that period is not a week, such proportion of the amount mentioned in paragraph (i) as falls to be
calculated in accordance with regulation 94(1) or (6) (calculation of weekly amount of income),
the amount of that allowance is to be reduced by an amount equal to 50% of the excess.
Here is a link to New Style ESA and I think the deduction will be the same.
data.parliament.uk/DepositedPapers/Files...only_claims_V6.0.pdf
David
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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- sharonuk
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2 months 1 week ago #294545 by sharonuk
Replied by sharonuk on topic Disregarded Earnings and Permanent Health Insurance for ESA
Hi David, my mistake I meant new style ESA.
Does the DMG Vol 9 Chapter 51 not apply to New Style ESA?
why does it say it needs to be in connection with the end of employment if that's not the case? Sorry I'm so confused!
Does the DMG Vol 9 Chapter 51 not apply to New Style ESA?
why does it say it needs to be in connection with the end of employment if that's not the case? Sorry I'm so confused!
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- David
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2 months 1 week ago #294546 by David
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by David on topic Disregarded Earnings and Permanent Health Insurance for ESA
Hi sharonuk,
You will find the rules regarding New Style ESA and Permanent Health Insurance in the ESA Regs 2013 see link below. www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/379/regulation/64
The calculation as you can see is identical with that for Conts ESA.
I cannot comment if advice appears different in the DMG. It is actually the ESA regs that are the final authority.
I think in your case employment has ended so any exemptions for those still in employment would not be relevant anyway
Hope this helps,
David
You will find the rules regarding New Style ESA and Permanent Health Insurance in the ESA Regs 2013 see link below. www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/379/regulation/64
The calculation as you can see is identical with that for Conts ESA.
I cannot comment if advice appears different in the DMG. It is actually the ESA regs that are the final authority.
I think in your case employment has ended so any exemptions for those still in employment would not be relevant anyway
Hope this helps,
David
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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