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Tribunal Next week
- AnnieB
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3 weeks 1 day ago #300624 by AnnieB
Tribunal Next week was created by AnnieB
I have my PIP Tribunal next week and my anxiety is through the roof. I originally applied in Sept 2023 and was given 6 points for Daily Living and no points for Mobility. After submitting a MR, Daily living was increased to 10 points, but still nothing for Mobility. I have always said due to an upper arm injury and chronic pain, that I am unsteady on my feet as my balance has been thrown off, and I have suffered a few falls. I had a major fall last year that saw me dislocate and fracture my ankle in 3 places which needed surgery. On looking through the forum, my understanding is that this last fall cant be included as its a new injury, but surely as i have always stated that i am unsteady on my feet and this is clearly documented in my original application, this last fall is a continuation of the mobility issues i reported in Sept 2023? Can you please advise.
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- LL26
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3 weeks 1 day ago #300660 by LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by LL26 on topic Tribunal Next week
Hi AnnieB,
I agree with you.
The new fall is further evidence of the (same) fact that 'there is a risk of substantial harm' in terms of your general mobility. This would include getting in to the bath, possibly moving around the kitchen for cooking, perhaps dressing and certainly walking.
Regulation 4(2A)PIP Regs 2013 provides 4 criteria ' all of which must be met
Safety
Acceptable standard
Repetition
Reasonable time
Repetition means as many times as is reasonable across the whole day.
Think about this - even if you drive everywhere there will be small distances, possibly only 1 or 2 metres from a inkling to get to the car and vice versa. Here is a possible day - take kids to school, come home, go to shop and buy a birthday card, take card to Aunt, go back home, pick up kids. Take one child to karate. Collect child....Now I appreciate that with disability you might not be able to actually do all the small journeys on foot connected with these, but these 'walks' are all the normal 'repetitions' that most people would aspire to, and hence if you weren't able to do all these sorts of small walks, each and every day, (or at least for the majority of days,) then you can't 'repeat'.
Why can't you 'repeat' - chronic pain is likely to comprise not 'acceptable standard '. Significant pain will not be 'acceptable'. It is likely that fatigue, breathlessness can also comprise not acceptable.
If you have significant pain at the start of walking, then it is likely that your walking ability will be nil or very little. Any walking done with significant pain has to be disregarded.
Safety. If there is a risk of substantial harm - it's hard to think of a situation where breaking an ankle in 3 places (and of course whatever other accidents you've had previously,) isn't going to be evidence if substantial harm. After all, if you fall, there must also be a risk of eg back or head injury, or other even more serious injury, which perhaps only didn't happen because you fell in a slightly more comfortable way! Remember also, a stumble is only an inch away from another (injury) fall. Ongoing evidence of stumbles and falls is evidence of not being 'safe' and even without pain separately shows not being 'acceptable '.
Reasonable time means taking over twice as long as non disabled person. - if your walking speed is very slow, especially given that if you only do a few short metres into a car, the actual time will be negligible so a reasonable will be quite short too!
Maybe provide a list if actual falls and injuries, but if course explain that stumbles occur on many occasions if this is correct. Try and explain why the falls occur, or maybe there is no reason, which is perhaps more worrying. Detail falls or stumbles at home too.
I hope this helps.
Good luck. Let us know how you get on.
LL26
I agree with you.
The new fall is further evidence of the (same) fact that 'there is a risk of substantial harm' in terms of your general mobility. This would include getting in to the bath, possibly moving around the kitchen for cooking, perhaps dressing and certainly walking.
Regulation 4(2A)PIP Regs 2013 provides 4 criteria ' all of which must be met
Safety
Acceptable standard
Repetition
Reasonable time
Repetition means as many times as is reasonable across the whole day.
Think about this - even if you drive everywhere there will be small distances, possibly only 1 or 2 metres from a inkling to get to the car and vice versa. Here is a possible day - take kids to school, come home, go to shop and buy a birthday card, take card to Aunt, go back home, pick up kids. Take one child to karate. Collect child....Now I appreciate that with disability you might not be able to actually do all the small journeys on foot connected with these, but these 'walks' are all the normal 'repetitions' that most people would aspire to, and hence if you weren't able to do all these sorts of small walks, each and every day, (or at least for the majority of days,) then you can't 'repeat'.
Why can't you 'repeat' - chronic pain is likely to comprise not 'acceptable standard '. Significant pain will not be 'acceptable'. It is likely that fatigue, breathlessness can also comprise not acceptable.
If you have significant pain at the start of walking, then it is likely that your walking ability will be nil or very little. Any walking done with significant pain has to be disregarded.
Safety. If there is a risk of substantial harm - it's hard to think of a situation where breaking an ankle in 3 places (and of course whatever other accidents you've had previously,) isn't going to be evidence if substantial harm. After all, if you fall, there must also be a risk of eg back or head injury, or other even more serious injury, which perhaps only didn't happen because you fell in a slightly more comfortable way! Remember also, a stumble is only an inch away from another (injury) fall. Ongoing evidence of stumbles and falls is evidence of not being 'safe' and even without pain separately shows not being 'acceptable '.
Reasonable time means taking over twice as long as non disabled person. - if your walking speed is very slow, especially given that if you only do a few short metres into a car, the actual time will be negligible so a reasonable will be quite short too!
Maybe provide a list if actual falls and injuries, but if course explain that stumbles occur on many occasions if this is correct. Try and explain why the falls occur, or maybe there is no reason, which is perhaps more worrying. Detail falls or stumbles at home too.
I hope this helps.
Good luck. Let us know how you get on.
LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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- AnnieB
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3 weeks 12 hours ago #300674 by AnnieB
Replied by AnnieB on topic Tribunal Next week
Thank you so much LL26 for your reply and all the helpful information.
I have evidence in consultant letters where as a result of a fall I needed further surgery on my already badly damaged shoulder, these letters are already submitted as evidence.
I also have a couple of pictures of minor injuries, is it to late to submit them now?
I have evidence in consultant letters where as a result of a fall I needed further surgery on my already badly damaged shoulder, these letters are already submitted as evidence.
I also have a couple of pictures of minor injuries, is it to late to submit them now?
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- LL26
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3 weeks 4 hours ago - 3 weeks 3 hours ago #300705 by LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by LL26 on topic Tribunal Next week
Hi AnnieB,
If the tribunal is at the Courthouse or via video, then you could bring along the photos or show them, but only if the photos show something meaningful.
So...broken shoulder and badly broken ankle, sounds like you have real problem with falls! Good luck.
LL26
If the tribunal is at the Courthouse or via video, then you could bring along the photos or show them, but only if the photos show something meaningful.
So...broken shoulder and badly broken ankle, sounds like you have real problem with falls! Good luck.
LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Last edit: 3 weeks 3 hours ago by LL26.
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- AnnieB
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3 weeks 3 hours ago #300709 by AnnieB
Replied by AnnieB on topic Tribunal Next week
Hi LL26,
My tribunal is just a phone call, so with hindsight probably should have submitted the photos a while ago.
Unfortunately I do seem to make a habit of falling over my own shadow, and if you know the nursery rhyme one arm one leg one nod of the head, well could have been written for me.
I will update you on the outcome of the dreaded tribunal.
Thanks again for all your help.
My tribunal is just a phone call, so with hindsight probably should have submitted the photos a while ago.
Unfortunately I do seem to make a habit of falling over my own shadow, and if you know the nursery rhyme one arm one leg one nod of the head, well could have been written for me.
I will update you on the outcome of the dreaded tribunal.
Thanks again for all your help.
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- BIS
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3 weeks 2 hours ago #300720 by BIS
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Replied by BIS on topic Tribunal Next week
Hi AnnieB
The best of luck at your Tribunal. We will be thinking of you.
BIS
The best of luck at your Tribunal. We will be thinking of you.
BIS
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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