'Moving around' question on UC50 questionnaire for WCA

Hello there,

I am a complete newbie on this forum, so apologies in advance if I have made any errors in posting this question, or if it is outside the scope of your forum's advice topics.

I am currently in the process of completing both the UC50 questionnaire for the WCA, and PIP claim - both at the same time. Lucky me. Unfortunately, just days after initiating the PIP process, the UC50 form also arrived. Owing to the effects of my health conditions (ME/CFS, Depression, Anxiety and ADHD - to be clinically assessed next week) attempting just one of these forms has proved to be overwhelming, let alone both. Thankfully, I have managed to get an extension of one more month, for my PIP claim. Meanwhile, having contacted the UC50 assessment provider (Serco, in my area) I have been advised that although an extension cannot officially be given - my health conditions mean that I am in a category of claimants for whom my UC will not be stopped due to late or non-return of my form. I have been advised to "just get it back as soon as I can".

So I am now beavering away at these forms - in between bouts of fatigue, dizziness and generally struggling to take care of myself. However, at least I have more time now.

Given the complex rules (and pitfalls) that apply to both these assessments, I am using both the main B&W guides to help me answer the activity questions. I am also using the B&W PIP guide for specific health conditions too. Along with these, I have also downloaded some other key/useful guides, such as the official DWP guidance / handbooks written for HCP assessors, and those compiled by relevant charities & advice providers for my specific conditions - such as the ME association, and the Mental Health and Money Advice website.

While this may all seem like overkill, I am under no illusions about the need for arming myself with knowledge about each process (including the complexities regarding the PIP assessment, and the rules around how UC claimants are assessed for their work capabilities).... being vital, if I am to stand any decent chance of being assessed correctly - and fairly, in both cases. Not only that, but in doing so, to reduce my chances having to face a mandatory reconsideration or appeal process for either claim.

Not surprisingly the whole business of reading through the information, and compiling my answers (especially with cognitive processing issues, and a perfectionist streak - connected with my ADHD), has significantly impacted my physical and mental health over the past month. However, I am taking it 'one descriptor at a time' and trying to complete two questionnaires that will hopefully do me justice - along with various sources of supporting evidence I am trying to obtain from my GP and various health professionals, to submit with my claim. It is exhausting ....

If you're still reading (thank you!) - the main purpose of this post today, is to ask your moderators / advisors about how the 'Moving around' descriptors differ, between the PIP form and the UC50 form.

Incidentally, I am aware of the different functions of the two assessments, and that despite some overlap between a few descriptors, they are not assessing abilities in exactly the same way. However, given that the mobility questions on both forms seem very similar - yet also different, with regards to things like the moving distances required for each score - it is difficult to easily compare and tease apart the 'meanings' and definitions - so that I can answer both questions effectively. I am mindful of the fact that, although PIP and UC50/WCA are assessed separately, it is not entirely impossible that assessors may at some point be able to compare both my questionnaires (especially with proposed changes to these two processes being discussed in government right now) - so the bottom line is, I'm aware that I need to take great care with my answers, overall - but to these two seemingly similar activity questions, in particular.

Given that I suffer with ME/CFS symptoms that fluctuate, and involve after-effects - the job of explaining my ability here is not straightforward. I could manage to move 20, 50, 100 or even 200 metres one day, but not be able to repeat any of these distances that same day - or at all the following day. Due to both descriptors (annoyingly) using different distances, for their point scores - it seems a better, safer option overall that I tick the 'It varies' box in both cases - and explain 'why' in their respective 'Use this space' boxes underneath.

However, I've picked up in the DWP WCA handbook for assessors a line that states this UC50 descriptor '... is intended to reflect the level of mobility that a person would need in order to be able to move reasonably within and around an indoor environment.' . Meanwhile, the PIP 'version' of the 'Moving around' activity seems to indicate only 'outdoors' being the environment being assessed. I have found no other explanation about this point in any other advice guide - so I want to ask if anyone here knows, and can help clarify this point?

It seems to me, that the UC50 descriptor 'Moving around and using steps' activity is assessing indoor and outdoor environments (from the examples shown in the DWP WCA handbook for assessors, at least) ... while the PIP 'Moving around' activity seems to look mainly or solely at 'outdoors' - although I've read guidance for this too, that refers to 'moving around shops', so it confusing.

Certainly for the majority of the time, I'm never able to reliably repeat any of those given distances in the same day/or following day, due to the constant, though variable after-effects of chronic fatigue upon my ability to perform this, or other activities later. All I can 'reliably' repeat (without suffering consequences during or afterwards) is moving shorter than 20 metres-a time distances around my 2-up 2-down home - which I assume, is relevant for the UC50 question - but not for the PIP question?

Sorry if this seems like splitting hairs - but I'm aware of the need to split them, given how DWP assessors are very likely to!

In terms of other differences, I note that both these descriptors seem to be interested only in physical symptoms, rather then any mental or cognitive issues. That makes it tricky with ME/CFS which encompasses all three areas. Along with fatigue, vertigo and dizziness, I do also experience anticipation anxiety about suffering any symptoms whilst outdoors / in public spaces. Added to this, I have problems with sound/noise intolerance, and various cognitive 'brain fog' issues, stemming not only from ME/CFS but also ADHD traits (and also being post-menopausal) all of which can affect my ability to move around reliably, albeit in indirect ways, mainly the fatigue it all causes - rather than any 'obvious' symptoms like lower-limb immobilities, which I do not have any problems with. It may mean that some of the examples I wish to give, are better placed in the 'Going out' activity for UC50 and the 'Planning and Following a Journey' activity for PIP. Thankfully, one clear difference between the two - about 'using steps' (UC50 includes this - PIP doesn't) is not relevant to me, as I can repeatedly cope with moving two steps.

Phew! Having written all that, I feel exhausted. Hopefully this hasn't exhausted any readers too (apologies if it has).

The rest of the activities on both forms are all complex too, making it hard (on the brain!) to accurately interpret and answer them (even with the various helpful, detailed guides at my disposal - and perhaps because there IS so much good advice to read and take in). However, it is this 'moving around' question, which I find particularly tricky, and just want to make sure I don't get the aims /parameters of these two questions mixed up, in my attempt to answer each of them - well!

Many thanks for reading, and for any help and advice out there, about my question today.

I have no idea whether to sign off using my real name or 'something else' - I will use the latter!

'Bonny'

Hi Bonny

I don't know if my experience will help you, but I share it for whatever good it might do.

I don't have a definitive diagnosis - I did sustain a bleed in my brain a couple of decades ago; after years of being misdiagnosed with ME and stress/depression (spoiler alert - I wasn't stressed or depressed but numerous GPs jumped to conclusions instead of fully investigating the umpteen abnormal blood test results that I had), anyway. ..

Because I have no definitive diagnosis, what I did, first with my then DLA claim, then later my IB and ESA claims having become too unwell to continue working was to write a list of symptoms and triggers, and refer to the various paragraphs when filling in the forms.

I also kept a brief (about a page of A4 a day) diary of activities, pain levels, amount of meds taken, fatigue levels, etc. Things like if I was bouncing off walls, dropping things, injuring myself, knocking things over, etc. Plus, in order to reduce the amount I had to write in the diary entries, I also wrote what various activities involved and how long it took me - these are mostly my morning routines, how I manage with having a shower and my bedtime routines.

All of this was also printed off and sent in with my forms. Assuming everything is online these days, I would hope there is some way this extra information can be sent in, along with any letters from any experts as needed (which I didn't have).

One thing I also stopped doing, which was very hard, was correcting my typing/spelling errors - bearing in mind I'm a qualified shorthand typist, as that was giving an inaccurate impression of my abilities to not only type, but to spell (as my brain injury made itself known, i found that not only could I not type accurately, I couldn't remember how to spell, either).

I realise that this can be a lot of hard work - but after my original claim for DLA, when I ended up at tribunal because the doctor who assessed me wrote some things that simply weren't accurate on my assessment, and the decision maker misinterpreted (deciding that I wasn't too tired to eat, but instead chose not to eat, that sort of thing), whenever I've been reviewed, despite the anxiety caused by the forms, and yes, you have my sympathy on both claims coming at once - that happened to me once, too - it has been enough that my claims have gone through without me having to challenge the decisions. Once those pages are typed up, they only need to be adjusted for subsequent claims if your symptoms, etc have changed in any way, and that makes subsequent claims a little easier.

I hope what I've written makes sense, among my problems is the memory of a goldfish and the concentrations pan of a gnat and trying to keep track of what I've written in this reply box is quite difficult, so I might be a bit disjointed and repetitive.

Good luck with your claim.