- Posts: 679
× Members
undertaking any journey PIP
- Perdita
- Topic Author
- Offline
Less More
1 day 6 hours ago #305335 by Perdita
undertaking any journey PIP was created by Perdita
Would a person score if they could only leave their house to undertake a journey 3 days a week if anxiety stopped them leaving on the other days, if the anxiety was not OPD. I mean if the person wasn't having panic attacks but enough anxiety to stop them going out? Would this be the 4 point one? Or would it come under Reliability criteria, and how would that score. It seems on other activities the Reliability, safely, timely, etc score 2 points.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- LL26
- Offline
Less More
- Posts: 1500
1 day 1 hour ago #305362 by LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by LL26 on topic undertaking any journey PIP
Hi Perdita,
There is caselaw that said if anxiety is sufficient that it prevents you from going out that is likely to be OPD. Even if not OPD it is likely to be 'not acceptable standard ' Why can the person only go out 3 days per week? For what purpose does he go out? Even on those 3 days can he go out repeatedly?
( eg take kids to school, go to bank, go to Tescos, come back home, pick up kids, and take them to karate etc etc)
Maybe look at the problem from another view? Can the person go out if accompanied? If so, what would the other person have to do?
I think there is an argument here but you need to word it carefully.
I hooe this helps.
LL26
There is caselaw that said if anxiety is sufficient that it prevents you from going out that is likely to be OPD. Even if not OPD it is likely to be 'not acceptable standard ' Why can the person only go out 3 days per week? For what purpose does he go out? Even on those 3 days can he go out repeatedly?
( eg take kids to school, go to bank, go to Tescos, come back home, pick up kids, and take them to karate etc etc)
Maybe look at the problem from another view? Can the person go out if accompanied? If so, what would the other person have to do?
I think there is an argument here but you need to word it carefully.
I hooe this helps.
LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Perdita
- Topic Author
- Offline
Less More
- Posts: 679
20 hours 7 minutes ago #305384 by Perdita
Replied by Perdita on topic undertaking any journey PIP
Thank you LL26 This person needs to build up to and recover from going outside - he has a fear of social interaction and anticipated possible social interaction, also a fear of being targeted, so a fear passing by people. This would be a familiar type journey. However no panic attacks, but start the path of an autistic shutdown. However, it is pretty much guaranteed that he could not do an unfamiliar journey because this would be so much harder for additional anxiety issues on top, think he would def go into full shutdown. But we just told assessor that he had never done an unfamiliar journey and explained the public transport, people anxieties etc. Zero points! He cannot go out of the home due to foot issue anyway (zero points for foot). Can he argue for the unfamiliar journey, can't use public transport, couldn't manage link sudden changes of route, people interaction anxiety etc if he has not actually tried it ever by himself through fear and assumption that it would cause 100% shutdown? Zero points given so far for mobility.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- latetrain
- Offline
Less More
- Posts: 8502
14 hours 36 minutes ago #305423 by latetrain
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by latetrain on topic undertaking any journey PIP
Hi Perdita
Follow LL26 sound advice and use our guide to help with a MR, have you applied for a copy of the assessors report called a PA4.
When you have the assessors report, you will have a better understanding of how the DWP Decision Maker has come to their conclusions and you will now be able to argue against them.
I usually use a highlighter to highlight any inaccuracies, once you have gone through the report you then set out why you are applying for a MR and go through each descriptor one at a time why you disagree with the assessor and try and match it with any supporting documents you may have sent in.
Understand that the assessor is offering an opinion when they say 'in my opinion' you can do the PIP activities, tackling these head-on is unlikely to be successful, you need to show that the basis of that opinion is founded on incorrect information, so try and refer to your evidence to undermine what they have said, remember they are just an opinion which is not based on fact.
Also, try and stick to issues that lead to your scoring points, I often hear members referring to the assessors spelling, as an example, whilst it may show a lack of professionalism, raising it as an issue isn't going to help you get an award.
Your primary task is to show that you meet the criteria, there are many reasons you may have failed, you need to address each of these but don't get bogged down in criticising the assessment report unless you can clearly show that it is incorrect, it is a lot easier to argue the facts of the situation.
Lastly, make sure that you understand the criteria that you are being assessed against you can put the best case forward that is possible but you won't score points if you do not meet the PIP Descriptors.
Gary
Follow LL26 sound advice and use our guide to help with a MR, have you applied for a copy of the assessors report called a PA4.
When you have the assessors report, you will have a better understanding of how the DWP Decision Maker has come to their conclusions and you will now be able to argue against them.
I usually use a highlighter to highlight any inaccuracies, once you have gone through the report you then set out why you are applying for a MR and go through each descriptor one at a time why you disagree with the assessor and try and match it with any supporting documents you may have sent in.
Understand that the assessor is offering an opinion when they say 'in my opinion' you can do the PIP activities, tackling these head-on is unlikely to be successful, you need to show that the basis of that opinion is founded on incorrect information, so try and refer to your evidence to undermine what they have said, remember they are just an opinion which is not based on fact.
Also, try and stick to issues that lead to your scoring points, I often hear members referring to the assessors spelling, as an example, whilst it may show a lack of professionalism, raising it as an issue isn't going to help you get an award.
Your primary task is to show that you meet the criteria, there are many reasons you may have failed, you need to address each of these but don't get bogged down in criticising the assessment report unless you can clearly show that it is incorrect, it is a lot easier to argue the facts of the situation.
Lastly, make sure that you understand the criteria that you are being assessed against you can put the best case forward that is possible but you won't score points if you do not meet the PIP Descriptors.
Gary
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Perdita
- Topic Author
- Offline
Less More
- Posts: 679
14 hours 18 minutes ago #305425 by Perdita
Replied by Perdita on topic undertaking any journey PIP
Thank you Gary. I specifically need to know if a person can argue OPD for following an unfamiliar journey if they have never attempted the activity. It is a case of 100% avoidance and an assumption that it would lead to OPD because even familiar journeys are difficult. What are your thoughts?
Secondly, is it stll possible to get Case Law book or ideally a download from B and W. If so, is that immediate and is it up to date?
Secondly, is it stll possible to get Case Law book or ideally a download from B and W. If so, is that immediate and is it up to date?
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Perdita
- Topic Author
- Offline
Less More
- Posts: 679
14 hours 5 minutes ago #305428 by Perdita
Replied by Perdita on topic undertaking any journey PIP
Re post I just made, we actually have the PA4, I referred to zero points because it is those equivalent boxes the assessor has ticked. We are trying to catch the small window, ie fighting back , before the DM gets to work making a final decision. Just don't want the DM to chuck out the mobility because the following an unfamiliar journey is not being attempted in real life. I mean could the DM say zero points because the claimant has never tried the unfamiliar journey due to avoidance and fear?
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
Moderators: Gordon, latetrain, BIS, Catherine, Wendy, Kelly, greekqueen, peter, Katherine, Super User, Chris, David