- Posts: 2
× Members
Worth requesting MR?
- Sophie
- Topic Author
- Offline
Less More
1 day 3 hours ago #314101 by Sophie
Worth requesting MR? was created by Sophie
Hi All, I would be very grateful for your thoughts.
Received results of PIP application and have seen the decision maker either missed or ignored something I said in my application form, which has influenced the outcome.
Under the making food section, I specifically noted that I cannot use a perching stool as my kitchen is small and to use one would require moving the stool around to use/access different parts of the room (eg oven, fridge, microwave). Rather than helping with my symptoms this would make them worse (fatigue). However the decision maker, in their summary has said I should use a perching stool and has assigned the descriptor ‘can make food with an aid’ which goes completely against what I said.
Another point worth noting is that I am 5 months beyond the deadline for asking for an MR due to a parent becoming severely unwell and being in hospital in the run up to me receiving the decision letter, and then needing significant care support in the following months. This has severely impacted my cognitive and physical ability to deal with anything other than emergency care for my parent, including the PIP decision letter.
For those more experienced than me, do you think it would be worth submitting a MR request?
Many thanks in advance for your thoughts.
Received results of PIP application and have seen the decision maker either missed or ignored something I said in my application form, which has influenced the outcome.
Under the making food section, I specifically noted that I cannot use a perching stool as my kitchen is small and to use one would require moving the stool around to use/access different parts of the room (eg oven, fridge, microwave). Rather than helping with my symptoms this would make them worse (fatigue). However the decision maker, in their summary has said I should use a perching stool and has assigned the descriptor ‘can make food with an aid’ which goes completely against what I said.
Another point worth noting is that I am 5 months beyond the deadline for asking for an MR due to a parent becoming severely unwell and being in hospital in the run up to me receiving the decision letter, and then needing significant care support in the following months. This has severely impacted my cognitive and physical ability to deal with anything other than emergency care for my parent, including the PIP decision letter.
For those more experienced than me, do you think it would be worth submitting a MR request?
Many thanks in advance for your thoughts.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- BIS
- Away
Less More
- Posts: 10352
21 hours 34 minutes ago #314111 by BIS
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by BIS on topic Worth requesting MR?
Hi Sophie
I can't tell you what to do here. Whether you want to put in for a Mandatory Reconsideration is your choice, but I do think there are some things you might want to consider before making a decision. If still unsure at the end - go with your gut instinct.
You say that the assessor wrongly recorded your use of a perching stool and this has influenced the outcome. The question to ask yourself is, what difference has this made? Please don't think I'm dismissing the error - I'm not, but even people who have been awarded enhanced for both parts often find there are errors in their report. The issue is how costly do you think this error is. Have you possibly missed out on some points that impact your award? If you have been given a standard award and not enhanced then you might want to challenge it. If however, you have been awarded enhanced then only you can decide if it's worth challenging it. I can tell you now, the DWP are unlikely to change it if you already have enhanced. If you didn't get an award at all then you will probably want to challenge it.
I asked what difference does it make because the assessor's attitude to you using a perching stool could actually influence other questions - affected by your fatigue - such as taking a shower or bath or getting dressed. One seemingly unrelated issue can easily be attached to and influence another question. Only you will know whether that's a possibility.
You have the decision letter - but you haven't mentioned an assessment report. That is a PA4/ You can ring and ask for a copy of the report, and it will give you more information on how they came to their decision, which does not necessarily appear in the decision letter. It can be helpful in making an argument for your mandatory reconsideration.
You can still put in for a late Mandatory Reconsideration and say that it is because of your circumstances surrounding your very ill parent. You have 13 months from the date on your decision letter.
BIS
I can't tell you what to do here. Whether you want to put in for a Mandatory Reconsideration is your choice, but I do think there are some things you might want to consider before making a decision. If still unsure at the end - go with your gut instinct.
You say that the assessor wrongly recorded your use of a perching stool and this has influenced the outcome. The question to ask yourself is, what difference has this made? Please don't think I'm dismissing the error - I'm not, but even people who have been awarded enhanced for both parts often find there are errors in their report. The issue is how costly do you think this error is. Have you possibly missed out on some points that impact your award? If you have been given a standard award and not enhanced then you might want to challenge it. If however, you have been awarded enhanced then only you can decide if it's worth challenging it. I can tell you now, the DWP are unlikely to change it if you already have enhanced. If you didn't get an award at all then you will probably want to challenge it.
I asked what difference does it make because the assessor's attitude to you using a perching stool could actually influence other questions - affected by your fatigue - such as taking a shower or bath or getting dressed. One seemingly unrelated issue can easily be attached to and influence another question. Only you will know whether that's a possibility.
You have the decision letter - but you haven't mentioned an assessment report. That is a PA4/ You can ring and ask for a copy of the report, and it will give you more information on how they came to their decision, which does not necessarily appear in the decision letter. It can be helpful in making an argument for your mandatory reconsideration.
You can still put in for a late Mandatory Reconsideration and say that it is because of your circumstances surrounding your very ill parent. You have 13 months from the date on your decision letter.
BIS
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Sophie
- Topic Author
- Offline
Less More
- Posts: 2
4 hours 41 minutes ago #314117 by Sophie
Replied by Sophie on topic Worth requesting MR?
Hi BIS,
Thank you so much for your quick and comprehensive reply. Apologies, I realise that in my attempt to be brief I left out useful details.
The PIP decision as it stands gives me 11 points for daily living, so the descriptor decision by the assessor for making food (which is incorrect in my eyes) has resulted in my receiving standard rather than enhanced support. I do have the PA4 report - it mentions that I said in my assessment call that I cannot sit at a table in a normal chair to prepare food due to the angle of my arm causing more fatigue. It then goes on to say a perching stool would help. I suspect I forgot to mention during the call why a perching stool was not an option. It was however written clearly in my application form.
I’m not quite clear on what you mean by seemingly unrelated issues potentially influencing other parts of the assessment - might you be able to give an example? In case helpful here, the descriptors the assessor chose for bathing and dressing are ‘needs assistance to get in/out bath’ and for dressing ‘needs aid or appliance’.
You’re right that only I can decide whether to submit the review request. I guess I’m just hoping to get a sense of whether it might be worth it. The stress and exertion of the application itself significantly worsened my condition and I’m very conscious that I need to protect my health rather than potentially making it worse by doing the MR, especially if it is unlikely to be successful. I am also concerned by things I have read about people’s awards being reduced after a MR so don’t want to risk that either (I have been awarded standard daily living and enhanced mobility). At the same time it bothers me that they have ignored something I clearly stated, which has impacted my award level.
Thanks again,
Sophie
Thank you so much for your quick and comprehensive reply. Apologies, I realise that in my attempt to be brief I left out useful details.
The PIP decision as it stands gives me 11 points for daily living, so the descriptor decision by the assessor for making food (which is incorrect in my eyes) has resulted in my receiving standard rather than enhanced support. I do have the PA4 report - it mentions that I said in my assessment call that I cannot sit at a table in a normal chair to prepare food due to the angle of my arm causing more fatigue. It then goes on to say a perching stool would help. I suspect I forgot to mention during the call why a perching stool was not an option. It was however written clearly in my application form.
I’m not quite clear on what you mean by seemingly unrelated issues potentially influencing other parts of the assessment - might you be able to give an example? In case helpful here, the descriptors the assessor chose for bathing and dressing are ‘needs assistance to get in/out bath’ and for dressing ‘needs aid or appliance’.
You’re right that only I can decide whether to submit the review request. I guess I’m just hoping to get a sense of whether it might be worth it. The stress and exertion of the application itself significantly worsened my condition and I’m very conscious that I need to protect my health rather than potentially making it worse by doing the MR, especially if it is unlikely to be successful. I am also concerned by things I have read about people’s awards being reduced after a MR so don’t want to risk that either (I have been awarded standard daily living and enhanced mobility). At the same time it bothers me that they have ignored something I clearly stated, which has impacted my award level.
Thanks again,
Sophie
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- BIS
- Away
Less More
- Posts: 10352
2 hours 3 minutes ago #314120 by BIS
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by BIS on topic Worth requesting MR?
Hi Sophie
Let's start with the issue of is it worth submitting an MR. Only 27% of MRs are successful - but obviously the 27% that are successful definitely feel it was the right thing to do. Many of the people who aren't successful have already anticipated that they probably will lose and have prepared to submit an appeal. Unlike ESA, you have to go through an MR before you can appeal. Undoubtedly, it is stressful, but some claimants believe they are entitled to a better award, and they fight for it. Everyone has to do what is best for them. Some people find the entire prospect exhausting, and knowing there is a chance they will not win at the MR stage, they don't even try. There is no right or wrong decision, but there can be cost implications if a claimant misses out the chance to be awarded a higher amount.
The issue of the perching stool. You cannot use one because of the space available - but more importantly, you can't because it would exacerbate your symptoms, one of which is fatigue. If you are fatigued using a perching stool, then that means you are not safe, and you could not (even if there was space) reliably use one. But more importantly, if you suffer from fatigue, can you cook on a regular basis (if at all), and are you safe? Do you just eat a microwave meal because you are too fatigued? (Obviously, I don't know why you are fatigued or the impact - you know that).
When I said, did the issue of the perching stool affect any other questions and how the assessor judged them. I am thinking of the issue of your fatigue. And therefore, are you able to shower or get in and out of a bath, are you able to dress, are you able to think effectively, are you able to walk? I don't know how many of the questions you mentioned your fatigue, but if the assessor missed the real issue about preparing a meal and thought there was an easy solution, she may have had the same attitude to other questions. It's impossible for me to say, but often when an assessor comes up with an easy solution which you have already said wouldn't work, they have probably done it with other questions. It's easy to think the error is the perching stool - but to me, the real error is ignoring the seriousness of your fatigue. That sounds lengthy, but I hope you understand what I'm getting at.
Regarding awards being reduced after an MR. I have helped people for over ten years, and I have only ever known two people whose awards were reduced at the MR stage, and they were very unusual cases. Of the small number of people I know who support others in an official capacity, they have never had anyone lose at the MR stage. The majority of people just get turned down, and the decision remains unchanged.
Hope that helps
BIS
Let's start with the issue of is it worth submitting an MR. Only 27% of MRs are successful - but obviously the 27% that are successful definitely feel it was the right thing to do. Many of the people who aren't successful have already anticipated that they probably will lose and have prepared to submit an appeal. Unlike ESA, you have to go through an MR before you can appeal. Undoubtedly, it is stressful, but some claimants believe they are entitled to a better award, and they fight for it. Everyone has to do what is best for them. Some people find the entire prospect exhausting, and knowing there is a chance they will not win at the MR stage, they don't even try. There is no right or wrong decision, but there can be cost implications if a claimant misses out the chance to be awarded a higher amount.
The issue of the perching stool. You cannot use one because of the space available - but more importantly, you can't because it would exacerbate your symptoms, one of which is fatigue. If you are fatigued using a perching stool, then that means you are not safe, and you could not (even if there was space) reliably use one. But more importantly, if you suffer from fatigue, can you cook on a regular basis (if at all), and are you safe? Do you just eat a microwave meal because you are too fatigued? (Obviously, I don't know why you are fatigued or the impact - you know that).
When I said, did the issue of the perching stool affect any other questions and how the assessor judged them. I am thinking of the issue of your fatigue. And therefore, are you able to shower or get in and out of a bath, are you able to dress, are you able to think effectively, are you able to walk? I don't know how many of the questions you mentioned your fatigue, but if the assessor missed the real issue about preparing a meal and thought there was an easy solution, she may have had the same attitude to other questions. It's impossible for me to say, but often when an assessor comes up with an easy solution which you have already said wouldn't work, they have probably done it with other questions. It's easy to think the error is the perching stool - but to me, the real error is ignoring the seriousness of your fatigue. That sounds lengthy, but I hope you understand what I'm getting at.
Regarding awards being reduced after an MR. I have helped people for over ten years, and I have only ever known two people whose awards were reduced at the MR stage, and they were very unusual cases. Of the small number of people I know who support others in an official capacity, they have never had anyone lose at the MR stage. The majority of people just get turned down, and the decision remains unchanged.
Hope that helps
BIS
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
Moderators: latetrain, BIS, Catherine12345, Chris, David, Forum Moderator