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Telephone Appeal
- wing
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3 years 9 months ago #259803 by wing
Replied by wing on topic Telephone Appeal
HI Thank you for your kind words.
I got a letter from the Tribunal Service saying that the tribunal has decided to adjourn the hearing.
It stated:
The appeal was adjourned because the Appellant had a medical appointment and because further evidence which was in the possession of the Tribunal Service had not been added to the hearing bundle.
They also state that it may be helpful in deciding my appeal if they had copies of GP notes including letter from Consultants, Hospitals and other health care professions who are treating me.
It says I am entitled to make a request for these from my GP free of charge under the General Data Protection Regulations (GDPR). If I am willing to provide copies of my GP notes the Tribunal would like to see the notes only for the period 01/01/2018 to date. I can show the Directions notice to my GO to explain what the Tribunal has decided.
Goes on to state within 28 days.
The Tribunal Service already has in its possession DLA evidence from the DWP and further evidence submitted by mean 20 and 21 December 2020 and they should be added to the bundle and served on both the Appellant and the Respondent.
I think I've provided enough evidence of my medical conditions already. There is nothing new to send them that they don't already have. Also not been able to see any medical professional for over a year due to Covid-19 and lockdown.
I am really fed up with all this now and would throw in the towel but I might as well keep going.
Got nothing to lose, already lost it thanks to the DWP.
I got a letter from the Tribunal Service saying that the tribunal has decided to adjourn the hearing.
It stated:
The appeal was adjourned because the Appellant had a medical appointment and because further evidence which was in the possession of the Tribunal Service had not been added to the hearing bundle.
They also state that it may be helpful in deciding my appeal if they had copies of GP notes including letter from Consultants, Hospitals and other health care professions who are treating me.
It says I am entitled to make a request for these from my GP free of charge under the General Data Protection Regulations (GDPR). If I am willing to provide copies of my GP notes the Tribunal would like to see the notes only for the period 01/01/2018 to date. I can show the Directions notice to my GO to explain what the Tribunal has decided.
Goes on to state within 28 days.
The Tribunal Service already has in its possession DLA evidence from the DWP and further evidence submitted by mean 20 and 21 December 2020 and they should be added to the bundle and served on both the Appellant and the Respondent.
I think I've provided enough evidence of my medical conditions already. There is nothing new to send them that they don't already have. Also not been able to see any medical professional for over a year due to Covid-19 and lockdown.
I am really fed up with all this now and would throw in the towel but I might as well keep going.
Got nothing to lose, already lost it thanks to the DWP.
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- LL26
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3 years 9 months ago #259807 by LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by LL26 on topic Telephone Appeal
Hi Wing,
I realise that this is all very frustrating for you, but by no means unusual!
The tribunal rules state that the parties must cooperate with the tribunal, and whilst you may have already sent things in, if the tribunal still want these things then you do really need to send them in.
DWP have not prepared the papers properly, and have not included details if your DLA. By law, DWP, and the tribunal who stands in its place have to fully explain any discrepancy between the DLA award and the current points. So, the tribunal by law, need to examine the DLA award to be able to be confident that either the DWP points award was correct or most likely it was incorrect. No doubt your medical history will also confirm long standing disabilities which should help prove your case.
So yes, this is all very frustrating, but you are getting towards the end of this journey. Imagine you had booked a fantastic holiday in the sun somewhere. However, there are hold ups all along the road to the airport, and you begin to wonder if you will get there on time. Then, there are more and more delays for the plane. It is a nightmare, but you know once you finally get rid if all the hold ups, the holiday will be great. So you keep going, and don't give up in your dream. Your PIP journey has become a similar epic journey, and you have invested a lot of effort in getting it right. Just like this holiday, you are nearly there, so don't give up now.
All the best.
LL26
I realise that this is all very frustrating for you, but by no means unusual!
The tribunal rules state that the parties must cooperate with the tribunal, and whilst you may have already sent things in, if the tribunal still want these things then you do really need to send them in.
DWP have not prepared the papers properly, and have not included details if your DLA. By law, DWP, and the tribunal who stands in its place have to fully explain any discrepancy between the DLA award and the current points. So, the tribunal by law, need to examine the DLA award to be able to be confident that either the DWP points award was correct or most likely it was incorrect. No doubt your medical history will also confirm long standing disabilities which should help prove your case.
So yes, this is all very frustrating, but you are getting towards the end of this journey. Imagine you had booked a fantastic holiday in the sun somewhere. However, there are hold ups all along the road to the airport, and you begin to wonder if you will get there on time. Then, there are more and more delays for the plane. It is a nightmare, but you know once you finally get rid if all the hold ups, the holiday will be great. So you keep going, and don't give up in your dream. Your PIP journey has become a similar epic journey, and you have invested a lot of effort in getting it right. Just like this holiday, you are nearly there, so don't give up now.
All the best.
LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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- wing
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3 years 9 months ago #259960 by wing
Replied by wing on topic Telephone Appeal
Thank you LL26 for your encouraging words. It is a long journey with many pitfalls along the way and sometimes you just don't have the strength to carry on. But I will not back down, have come to far.
Interesting to know that the Tribunal needs the DWP to give the details of the DLA award and compare the points. My DLA award was given to me at a tribunal many years ago, again I had to wait over 1 year but worth it as they awarded me the high rates on both criteria.
Nothing has changed and in fact, has got worse with other conditions. I have given as much information as I can, even more than the original DLA award which was over 20 years ago.
I am a wheelchair user and the HP wrote in her assessment that as it was not prescribed then it does not count. I'm very surprised as the original tribunal all those years ago didn't take that view. It is, after all, an aid which I use to get about whether prescribed or not.
Thanks for all your support. I will let you know if I get any updates.
I
Interesting to know that the Tribunal needs the DWP to give the details of the DLA award and compare the points. My DLA award was given to me at a tribunal many years ago, again I had to wait over 1 year but worth it as they awarded me the high rates on both criteria.
Nothing has changed and in fact, has got worse with other conditions. I have given as much information as I can, even more than the original DLA award which was over 20 years ago.
I am a wheelchair user and the HP wrote in her assessment that as it was not prescribed then it does not count. I'm very surprised as the original tribunal all those years ago didn't take that view. It is, after all, an aid which I use to get about whether prescribed or not.
Thanks for all your support. I will let you know if I get any updates.
I
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- wing
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3 years 9 months ago #259961 by wing
Replied by wing on topic Telephone Appeal
Hi again,
I just wanted to add that it was the Tribunal who had failed to add the new evidence asked for and had not collated and distributed it to the other panel members and myself. The Clerk realised this when we spoke on the phone and checked how many pages we had in our bundles. So it's an admin error on their part which they did apologise for. Hopefully, they will get it right next time. I am keeping an eye on the app and will call them when the 28 days is up if I have not received the new evidence in the post by then.
I just wanted to add that it was the Tribunal who had failed to add the new evidence asked for and had not collated and distributed it to the other panel members and myself. The Clerk realised this when we spoke on the phone and checked how many pages we had in our bundles. So it's an admin error on their part which they did apologise for. Hopefully, they will get it right next time. I am keeping an eye on the app and will call them when the 28 days is up if I have not received the new evidence in the post by then.
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- Gary
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3 years 9 months ago #259979 by Gary
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gary on topic Telephone Appeal
Hi Wing
One of the first things is to understand the difference between DLA and PIP.
DLA looks at generic care needs in regard to bodily functions, PIP looks at the claimants specific ability to carry out an activity such as eating. DLA was awarded because the claimant needed an amount of care (in time) during the day, the night or both, to help them with that bodily function.
PIP looks at the claimant's ability to complete specific tasks within the activity and is points-based, these are clearly defined and it is easy not to score points because the claimant has not shown that they meet those specific criteria.
DLA treated the use of aids as a reason to reduce the amount of care needed, PIP treats aids as an indication of disability and in general they score extra points.
DLA's care need was reasonably generic, PIP treats prompting, assistance and supervision as different activities and as a result, they can score different points.
DLA required that the care was required for the majority of the time, for PIP it is the majority of days.
For PIP activities must be completed reliably, this means
• Safely – in a fashion that is unlikely to cause harm to themselves or to another person.
• To a necessary and appropriate standard – given the nature of the activity.
• Repeatedly – as often as is reasonably required.
• In a timely manner – in a reasonable time period.
Although DLA considers these terms, they are poorly defined as they are implemented through Case Law rather than being defined in the legislation as they are for PIP.
Gary
One of the first things is to understand the difference between DLA and PIP.
DLA looks at generic care needs in regard to bodily functions, PIP looks at the claimants specific ability to carry out an activity such as eating. DLA was awarded because the claimant needed an amount of care (in time) during the day, the night or both, to help them with that bodily function.
PIP looks at the claimant's ability to complete specific tasks within the activity and is points-based, these are clearly defined and it is easy not to score points because the claimant has not shown that they meet those specific criteria.
DLA treated the use of aids as a reason to reduce the amount of care needed, PIP treats aids as an indication of disability and in general they score extra points.
DLA's care need was reasonably generic, PIP treats prompting, assistance and supervision as different activities and as a result, they can score different points.
DLA required that the care was required for the majority of the time, for PIP it is the majority of days.
For PIP activities must be completed reliably, this means
• Safely – in a fashion that is unlikely to cause harm to themselves or to another person.
• To a necessary and appropriate standard – given the nature of the activity.
• Repeatedly – as often as is reasonably required.
• In a timely manner – in a reasonable time period.
Although DLA considers these terms, they are poorly defined as they are implemented through Case Law rather than being defined in the legislation as they are for PIP.
Gary
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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3 years 9 months ago #260388 by wing
Replied by wing on topic Telephone Appeal
Thank you Gary for pointing out the difference between DLA and the PIP criteria.
I have done my best to show that I am unable to carry out certain activities such as preparing a simple meal and what happens if I try to do so if I try to do so without help and assistance.
I have repeated it throughout if it applies to me.
I wondered if they take into consideration aids such as walking sticks and wheelchairs. The HP stated the wheelchair was not prescribed by a health professional. As if it did not count even though I use it and have someone to push me. I would not be able to continue walking and have stated it over and over again and what happens or has happened.
I remember being told by doctors and other medical professionals that there was a long waiting list for wheelchairs and very rarely prescribed. The suggestion was I should beg, borrow or steal one! Luckily, a friend had one they no longer needed (they had bought it) and gave it to me.
I'm going to keep on top of this Appeal because I really don't want it adjourned for a third time. So will ring the Tribunal Service if I have not heard anything when the 28 days is up. They should send me the DWP evidence, requested by the Judge, to add to the bundle before they give a new Tribunal date giving me and everybody else concerned enough time to look at it.
It is all such a waste of time and money and I'm sure in the end it must cost more than they save.
If that is the intent of the DWP.
Thanks again, will keep you posted.
I have done my best to show that I am unable to carry out certain activities such as preparing a simple meal and what happens if I try to do so if I try to do so without help and assistance.
I have repeated it throughout if it applies to me.
I wondered if they take into consideration aids such as walking sticks and wheelchairs. The HP stated the wheelchair was not prescribed by a health professional. As if it did not count even though I use it and have someone to push me. I would not be able to continue walking and have stated it over and over again and what happens or has happened.
I remember being told by doctors and other medical professionals that there was a long waiting list for wheelchairs and very rarely prescribed. The suggestion was I should beg, borrow or steal one! Luckily, a friend had one they no longer needed (they had bought it) and gave it to me.
I'm going to keep on top of this Appeal because I really don't want it adjourned for a third time. So will ring the Tribunal Service if I have not heard anything when the 28 days is up. They should send me the DWP evidence, requested by the Judge, to add to the bundle before they give a new Tribunal date giving me and everybody else concerned enough time to look at it.
It is all such a waste of time and money and I'm sure in the end it must cost more than they save.
If that is the intent of the DWP.
Thanks again, will keep you posted.
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