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Do I need to pay back ESA?

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3 years 8 months ago #261153 by JA
Do I need to pay back ESA? was created by JA
I receive cotribution based ESA, and an occupational pension of around £5000 per year. I have always let DWP know of any increases and as a result my ESA has been slighlty reduced. We also (my husband and I ) receive money from a holiday let that is classed as money from property. This year we will probably make a profit so I contacted ESA to ask if I need to inform them of earnings. They couldn't answer so go another person to call me. She asked lots of questions and made me feel as though I am doing something illegal. She said that any money coming into our household must be reported to them and I will have to pay back money received from property.

That was yesterday. Since then I have worried constantly in case I go to prison for fraud. I really didn't know I was doing anything wrong. I have informed them from the outset about us receiving payments from the property. Does anyone know what the limit is on how much I can receive from property on contribution based ESA? I need to know how much I need to pay back and may need to sell my house to make payment. I got a price for my car today so I know I have something towards it.

We havn't had to pay any tax on the property income yet as we still owe a lot on our mortgage and. the income is not as much as we initially paid out for the property. Though there is a profit showing on paper of about £5000 shared between me and my husband.

The woman that I spoke to has also told me that I have to get my accountant to get all accounts up to date and sent to her. This has put tremendous pressure on me.

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3 years 8 months ago - 3 years 8 months ago #261165 by LL26
Replied by LL26 on topic Do I need to pay back ESA?
Hi JA,
As far as I am aware the only thing that will affect your ESAcb is your occupational pension, but only if this us over £85 per week If so, and I think yours is just above the limit your ESAcb will be reduced by half the amount over the limit.
ESA cb is not affected by income.
The questioning that DWP gave suggests that they might believe you receive income based ESA. This might just be an over zealous adviser, or the computer may record this. Perhaps best to check, as clearly if you are actually on ESAib this would be wrong,can you could be clocking up an overpayment.
The only word of warning I would make is that you clearly get ESA because you are too ill to work, if it appears that you are running a business, then DWP might also question your entitlement to receive any kind of ESA. The sickness criteria is of course the same for either version of ESA.
Again if DWP think you can work, then they may supercede (cancel) your ESA and again this could incur an overpayment.
Of this is your husband's business then this is ok, but, you do use the word 'we' have a holiday let, which raises some doubts.
As for tax matters, this is out of the scope for this forum but clearly if you start making a profit, then you may have to pay tax. Obtaining an accountant and keeping proper accounts is always a good idea for a business.
So, just to recap. Aside from your pension, ESAcb will not be affected by other income. You have declared your pension and hence it is incumbent on DWP to calculate and make the correct reductions.
In the event thst you think you are on ESA cb and DWP think it's ESAib, then if they have overpaid you it is likely you can argue official error on the basis of confusion of the benefits and because you have told hem about all the income etc. I trust that you have kept details of phone calls or any correspondence with DWP about your income, in case this is required.
Please have a look at your award notice, (you should have an initial one and perhaps one each year?) Make sure this says Contribution based ESA. If not you may wish to contact DWP and determine exactly what sort of ESA you have been receiving and since when. You may wish to clarify why you need to send accounts for when you are on ESAcb.
Do not ignore this problem, as it could easily escalate if DWP have made incorrect assumptions.
If you have any problems then please seek advise from a specialist welfare rights organisation such as CAB or other local advice centre. You can find a local centre here:
advicelocal.uk/
I'm hoping you were speaking with an overzealous adviser from DWP. If not then there may be an overpayment, but if this is the case DWP should send you a notice explaining the overpayment and how it is comprised. As mentioned earlier, if there has been official error then you shouldn't need to repay anything.
So even IF there is an overpayment, and of course this is at present supposition not reality it is possible you will not need to repay anything, even though DWP letters tend to suggest you have to!
If you get such a letter do seek immediate advice to clarify this. You may need to appeal.
I hope this helps.
LL26

Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Last edit: 3 years 8 months ago by LL26. Reason: Spelling
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3 years 8 months ago #261167 by Catherine
Replied by Catherine on topic Do I need to pay back ESA?
Hello JA,

To add to LL's excellent reply I just wanted to add that you are not at risk of having to go prison.

Sending a virtual hug,
Catherine

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3 years 8 months ago #261176 by denby
Replied by denby on topic Do I need to pay back ESA?
Hi JA, I too send you a virtual hug. I get the feeling that some people in civil service jobs think that anyone letting property is a filthy nasty piece of work who should be threatened and made to feel as bad as possible - sound like the call you had?? Whereas in fact the great majority of landlords are letting a single property, usually one they have inherited even if you bought yours. So without them many more [some needy] people would be homeless and rents even higher. Running a holiday let may not require a comparable level of energy as being fit for work, for instance if it is not even near where you live, it is obvious you are going to be paying a cleaner to see to it between lets, not cleaning it etc yourself. If you are unable to work it is perfectly sensible you would seek to get income from a second property if you have one.
Try to take some deep breaths and follow the Mods' advice,
best wishes, Denby
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3 years 8 months ago #261190 by JA
Replied by JA on topic Do I need to pay back ESA?
Thank you Catherine. I have been very worried sick since my phone call with the DWP advisor on Friday.

LL26 thank you too. I have checked my paperwork and I am definitely receiving National Insurance contribution based ESA. I have probably caused trouble for myself by enquiring about our income from it. I did it because I wanted to make sure that I was not doing anything wrong.

DWP were informed when the holiday let was set up and they agreed that I could do it as only amounts to a few hours a week. I don't clean it but I keep the diary up to date and do some admin. My husband does all maintenance and we pay cleaners and decorators etc. I like to go in and chat to the cleaners, as it is nearby. It is my main social contact. Sometimes my daughter cleans which is great so I can see her. Hubby does all laundry and daughter irons. My daughter also receives all bookings, as well as them being sent to me, as I can't be trusted to check messages or respond to people. My memory is rubbish. She posts on Facebook as our cottage and deals with messages via Facebook and from online travel agents eg Airbnb.

The cottage was made out of a derelict building that came with our home. The Job Centre organised for us (my husband came too as I needed assistance) to go on a DWP course to learn about setting up a business. They gave advice on how to get a loan to do the work. I feel pleased because although we haven't made our money back we have been able to provide employment for many local self employed people. .The Disability Advisor at DWP then told me to continue collecting ESA as I was entitled to it. He was great, he got me a Blue Badge and was very supportive. Sadly he is no longer employed there.

My occupational Pension is just under £100 a week and my ESA is adjusted accordingly. I was asked lots of questions about self employment by the DWP advisor, that I was completely unable to answer, as I don't look after that side of things. We pay an accountant who does everything for us. I contacted them over the weekend and they have said that we are not self employed, but get income from property, that does not amount to the upper limit that I can earn on ESA. I hope that helps.

If I need to repay because I should not have received ESA, then I am of course happy to do so. I have just been terrified of being prosecuted and prison. Can you tell I have dreadful anxiety?

Thanks again everyone. I will contact CAB

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3 years 8 months ago #261192 by Gary
Replied by Gary on topic Do I need to pay back ESA?
Hi JA

By the sounds of it DWP have already taken into account your pension as you state 'My occupational Pension is just under £100 a week and my ESA is adjusted accordingly'
as LL26 stated earlier If you received an occupational or personal pension that pays more than £85 a week then your contributory ESA payment is reduced by half of the amount over this limit.

For example, if you receive £105 a week before tax from a personal pension , your ESA is reduced by £10, ie half of the excess figure of £20. If you receive more than one pension then they are added together for the calculation.

Gary

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