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PIP till 2022, then extended, now finishing 2021.
- bmjohnson
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3 years 3 months ago #266130 by bmjohnson
PIP till 2022, then extended, now finishing 2021. was created by bmjohnson
Not quite sure what is going on and or why they are doing this. It is almost as if they are just playing with people to cause them as much distress as possible. One may even think the Government had it in for long term sick and disabled.
Rant over; Back in the 20th century I got a lifetime award of DLA; Low care high mobility. After my lifetime award finished I got awarded PIP standard care and mobility untill March 2022. The ATOS person who had based their assessment on what they decided I was thinking (didn't ask me or go by what I had put in the form) said I should have it for 2 years. With my DLA award doctors had said my conditions would not get better, but despite since having had several heart attacks and also having chronic angina (evidence provided), a paramedic knew better. The DWP agreed with their assessment but decided my condition would last 4 years before needing a review.
Not sure when (2020 or 2021), but the DWP contacted me to say the review would be put back untill October due to Covid. This morning I got a letter telling me My PIP is due for a review and if I do not return the paperwork by 23 December my PIP will be stopped. I've (or at least my wife has) contacted my Doctor who will supply a letter for PIP (just not Blue badges). I have all the paperwork from my last review so will use that as a guide. Not sure when they are going to stop these constant reviews of long term chronic conditions. I'm 64 now will they leave me alone after this? My wife who has DLA (for life) was over 65 when they moved the goal posts so has been left alone.
Is there anything new I will need to look out for? My last assessment was at my home. I've never had a PIP (or ESA) assessment at at one of their centres. I had a couple of Incapacity Benefit medicals by real Doctors many moons ago, before that my own doctor (since retired) used to do it,
I must admit to being a little concerned as last time I lost my car. If I lose the rest my wife will lose much of her pension credit. When I lost my DLA they stopped it but we did manage to get it reinstated.
Rant over; Back in the 20th century I got a lifetime award of DLA; Low care high mobility. After my lifetime award finished I got awarded PIP standard care and mobility untill March 2022. The ATOS person who had based their assessment on what they decided I was thinking (didn't ask me or go by what I had put in the form) said I should have it for 2 years. With my DLA award doctors had said my conditions would not get better, but despite since having had several heart attacks and also having chronic angina (evidence provided), a paramedic knew better. The DWP agreed with their assessment but decided my condition would last 4 years before needing a review.
Not sure when (2020 or 2021), but the DWP contacted me to say the review would be put back untill October due to Covid. This morning I got a letter telling me My PIP is due for a review and if I do not return the paperwork by 23 December my PIP will be stopped. I've (or at least my wife has) contacted my Doctor who will supply a letter for PIP (just not Blue badges). I have all the paperwork from my last review so will use that as a guide. Not sure when they are going to stop these constant reviews of long term chronic conditions. I'm 64 now will they leave me alone after this? My wife who has DLA (for life) was over 65 when they moved the goal posts so has been left alone.
Is there anything new I will need to look out for? My last assessment was at my home. I've never had a PIP (or ESA) assessment at at one of their centres. I had a couple of Incapacity Benefit medicals by real Doctors many moons ago, before that my own doctor (since retired) used to do it,
I must admit to being a little concerned as last time I lost my car. If I lose the rest my wife will lose much of her pension credit. When I lost my DLA they stopped it but we did manage to get it reinstated.
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3 years 3 months ago #266135 by Gary
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gary on topic PIP till 2022, then extended, now finishing 2021.
Hi bmjohnson
The first question I would ask you appeal the initial decision, did you get a copy of the assessors report when you were assessed for PIP. If you did not, request a copy now, you can see how your previous assessor assessed you.
You should always contact PIP 48 hrs after an assessment for a copy of the assessors report, we hear quite often members being fobbed off that they cannot get a copy until a decision has been made, this is not true for PIP.
Unfortunately we have many similar tales on the forum as yours, DWP used to contact claimants 1 year before the end of their claim for a review, over time this has reduced to 6 months so being contacted now is not unusual. You can contact PIP and ask for an extension especially during the Christmas period due to postal issues.
To answer will they leave you alone after this, the answer is no, claimants of state pension age are receiving light touch reviews and on going which usually mean every 10 years.
DLA looks at generic care needs in regard to bodily functions, PIP looks at the claimants specific ability to carry out an activity such as eating. DLA was awarded because the claimant needed an amounOt of care (in time) during the day, the night or both, to help them with that bodily function.
PIP looks at the claimant's ability to complete specific tasks within the activity and is points-based, these are clearly defined and it is easy not to score points because the claimant has not shown that they meet those specific criteria.
DLA treated the use of aids as a reason to reduce the amount of care needed, PIP treats aids as an indication of disability and in general they score extra points.
DLA's care need was reasonably generic, PIP treats prompting, assistance and supervision as different activities and as a result, they can score different points.
DLA required that the care was required for the majority of the time, for PIP it is the majority of days.
For PIP activities must be completed reliably, this means
• Safely – in a fashion that is unlikely to cause harm to themselves or to another person.
• To a necessary and appropriate standard – given the nature of the activity.
• Repeatedly – as often as is reasonably required.
• In a timely manner – in a reasonable time period.
Although DLA considers these terms, they are poorly defined as they are implemented through Case Law rather than being defined in the legislation as they are for PIP.
Have a look at our comprehensive guides to help you with your review, complete your review as if it was a new claim.
If you look through the guide, it will give you some idea of how you might answer questions.
www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/help-for-claimants/pip#claims
Gary
The first question I would ask you appeal the initial decision, did you get a copy of the assessors report when you were assessed for PIP. If you did not, request a copy now, you can see how your previous assessor assessed you.
You should always contact PIP 48 hrs after an assessment for a copy of the assessors report, we hear quite often members being fobbed off that they cannot get a copy until a decision has been made, this is not true for PIP.
Unfortunately we have many similar tales on the forum as yours, DWP used to contact claimants 1 year before the end of their claim for a review, over time this has reduced to 6 months so being contacted now is not unusual. You can contact PIP and ask for an extension especially during the Christmas period due to postal issues.
To answer will they leave you alone after this, the answer is no, claimants of state pension age are receiving light touch reviews and on going which usually mean every 10 years.
DLA looks at generic care needs in regard to bodily functions, PIP looks at the claimants specific ability to carry out an activity such as eating. DLA was awarded because the claimant needed an amounOt of care (in time) during the day, the night or both, to help them with that bodily function.
PIP looks at the claimant's ability to complete specific tasks within the activity and is points-based, these are clearly defined and it is easy not to score points because the claimant has not shown that they meet those specific criteria.
DLA treated the use of aids as a reason to reduce the amount of care needed, PIP treats aids as an indication of disability and in general they score extra points.
DLA's care need was reasonably generic, PIP treats prompting, assistance and supervision as different activities and as a result, they can score different points.
DLA required that the care was required for the majority of the time, for PIP it is the majority of days.
For PIP activities must be completed reliably, this means
• Safely – in a fashion that is unlikely to cause harm to themselves or to another person.
• To a necessary and appropriate standard – given the nature of the activity.
• Repeatedly – as often as is reasonably required.
• In a timely manner – in a reasonable time period.
Although DLA considers these terms, they are poorly defined as they are implemented through Case Law rather than being defined in the legislation as they are for PIP.
Have a look at our comprehensive guides to help you with your review, complete your review as if it was a new claim.
If you look through the guide, it will give you some idea of how you might answer questions.
www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/help-for-claimants/pip#claims
Gary
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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3 years 3 months ago #266139 by bmjohnson
Replied by bmjohnson on topic PIP till 2022, then extended, now finishing 2021.
Hi Gary
Thanks for your reply. I don't think there is any point in appealing the initial decision as it was nearly 4 years ago and it's coming up for review. I did get a copy of the assessors report and there where lots of discrepancies between that and the transcript of the assessment. I did phone the DWP at the time but was told if I wanted to go further I could easily lose points. As I had just scrapped through on both components I did not take it further. As losing just one point on both would have resulted in nothing. Had I only had standard mobility I would have appealed, but in the end discretion became the better part of valour.
I have had a chance to peruse the forms, and while there are not any changes all is not straight forward. No problems when it comes to the care but there is with the mobility. I (or my wife) told the assessor I could only walk about 20 yards, they did not observe me walking but said on their report that I could walk 40m in 2 mins. The problem is I can still only walk 20m in 2 mins, but if I put no change in mobility will they assume I can walk the 40m the assessor made up or the 20m I told them. If I say there is a change it would suggest I was lying last time. If I say the assessor lied (or put in such a way so as not to directly accuse them of telling untruths), and I can still only walk 20m in 2 mins will they get annoyed and stop it to spite me.
I have downloaded a couple of your guides and have copies of all my PIP and DLA forms so will use them to help filling the forms out.
Thanks for your reply. I don't think there is any point in appealing the initial decision as it was nearly 4 years ago and it's coming up for review. I did get a copy of the assessors report and there where lots of discrepancies between that and the transcript of the assessment. I did phone the DWP at the time but was told if I wanted to go further I could easily lose points. As I had just scrapped through on both components I did not take it further. As losing just one point on both would have resulted in nothing. Had I only had standard mobility I would have appealed, but in the end discretion became the better part of valour.
I have had a chance to peruse the forms, and while there are not any changes all is not straight forward. No problems when it comes to the care but there is with the mobility. I (or my wife) told the assessor I could only walk about 20 yards, they did not observe me walking but said on their report that I could walk 40m in 2 mins. The problem is I can still only walk 20m in 2 mins, but if I put no change in mobility will they assume I can walk the 40m the assessor made up or the 20m I told them. If I say there is a change it would suggest I was lying last time. If I say the assessor lied (or put in such a way so as not to directly accuse them of telling untruths), and I can still only walk 20m in 2 mins will they get annoyed and stop it to spite me.
I have downloaded a couple of your guides and have copies of all my PIP and DLA forms so will use them to help filling the forms out.
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3 years 3 months ago #266144 by Gary
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gary on topic PIP till 2022, then extended, now finishing 2021.
Hi bmjohnson
I would agree with you and choose your battles wisely, discretion is the better part of valour.
In regards to your mobility, I would state that you told the assessor that you could only walk 20 m in 2 minutes and that this has not changed overtime.
One question I would ask is, what happens when you walk 20m? Do you have to stop to get your breath, if you do how long do you stop for, do you have to sit down or lean on something to catch your breath?
When compiling the form you have to be truthful, if your condition has deteriorated then say so, if your condition has not changed still set out how your condition affects you, I always advise claimants to complete a review form as if it was a new claim and use extra pages if you need to explain how your condition affects you, make sure you add your name and NI number to each page and number the pages i.e page 6 of 10.
Gary
I would agree with you and choose your battles wisely, discretion is the better part of valour.
In regards to your mobility, I would state that you told the assessor that you could only walk 20 m in 2 minutes and that this has not changed overtime.
One question I would ask is, what happens when you walk 20m? Do you have to stop to get your breath, if you do how long do you stop for, do you have to sit down or lean on something to catch your breath?
When compiling the form you have to be truthful, if your condition has deteriorated then say so, if your condition has not changed still set out how your condition affects you, I always advise claimants to complete a review form as if it was a new claim and use extra pages if you need to explain how your condition affects you, make sure you add your name and NI number to each page and number the pages i.e page 6 of 10.
Gary
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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3 years 3 months ago #266155 by bmjohnson
Replied by bmjohnson on topic PIP till 2022, then extended, now finishing 2021.
Hi Gary
I have to stop and rest after 20m, if I push on i would need to use my GTN spray. While it does reduce/stop the angina the side affects are not desirable, head ache and muggy feeling etc. If I try and walk faster I get out of breath and may need to use my GTN earlier. That said generally I use my mobility scooter (bought with the money I got from Motability when I lost my car) because of the excessive time taken walking anywhere.
I just dug out the transcript and read through it. I definitely said I could not walk to the top of the road which is less than 20m, My wife mentioned my angina and when I had to use my GTN spray. When the ATOS person arrived my wife said my memory was not good and I may need help with answers to some of the questions. The ATOS person said she was not interested what my wife said and made no mention of it in the report; she did not seem at all interested in my heart condition. I did tell her about my damaged spine and this was what she based all her assumptions on. I did mention it was a couple of minutes before the pain got too much when doing certain activities. From this she deduced "I thought" I could walk 40m in those couple of mins.
I learned about not just putting on the form that there have been no changes in my condition when I first got DLA. It was for 2 years, on renewal I basically put there where no changes and they stopped it. I did not know one could appeal, so waited a few months and reapplied giving as much information as I could and I got a life award.
Oh yea, and I dug out the paperwork for the original PIP award/application. The original assessment was in January, it just took several months for it to be awarded. So it was untill January 2022; (I was getting the assessment and award dates mixed up), but was put back untill October because of Covid so this would have been the time for review if not for Covid. That said, shouldn't there still not be restrictions due to Omicron, especially considering people claiming PIP are often Clinically Vulnerable?
I have to stop and rest after 20m, if I push on i would need to use my GTN spray. While it does reduce/stop the angina the side affects are not desirable, head ache and muggy feeling etc. If I try and walk faster I get out of breath and may need to use my GTN earlier. That said generally I use my mobility scooter (bought with the money I got from Motability when I lost my car) because of the excessive time taken walking anywhere.
I just dug out the transcript and read through it. I definitely said I could not walk to the top of the road which is less than 20m, My wife mentioned my angina and when I had to use my GTN spray. When the ATOS person arrived my wife said my memory was not good and I may need help with answers to some of the questions. The ATOS person said she was not interested what my wife said and made no mention of it in the report; she did not seem at all interested in my heart condition. I did tell her about my damaged spine and this was what she based all her assumptions on. I did mention it was a couple of minutes before the pain got too much when doing certain activities. From this she deduced "I thought" I could walk 40m in those couple of mins.
I learned about not just putting on the form that there have been no changes in my condition when I first got DLA. It was for 2 years, on renewal I basically put there where no changes and they stopped it. I did not know one could appeal, so waited a few months and reapplied giving as much information as I could and I got a life award.
Oh yea, and I dug out the paperwork for the original PIP award/application. The original assessment was in January, it just took several months for it to be awarded. So it was untill January 2022; (I was getting the assessment and award dates mixed up), but was put back untill October because of Covid so this would have been the time for review if not for Covid. That said, shouldn't there still not be restrictions due to Omicron, especially considering people claiming PIP are often Clinically Vulnerable?
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3 years 3 months ago #266169 by Gary
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gary on topic PIP till 2022, then extended, now finishing 2021.
Hi bmjohnson
You need to explain on your review form what you have explained on here about how your condition affects you.
Always ask for a copy of your assessment 48 hrs after the assessment, just to see what the assessor has written, if you disagree with anything and your award is less then you expected then apply for a MR, remember you have to meet the criteria to be awarded points, sometimes the way you answer a question can lead to points being awarded or not.
Gary
You need to explain on your review form what you have explained on here about how your condition affects you.
Always ask for a copy of your assessment 48 hrs after the assessment, just to see what the assessor has written, if you disagree with anything and your award is less then you expected then apply for a MR, remember you have to meet the criteria to be awarded points, sometimes the way you answer a question can lead to points being awarded or not.
Gary
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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