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10 years 3 months ago #118982 by Lukeandrew
Replied by Lukeandrew on topic First Tier Tribunal procedure
Dear Gordon ,
The Tribunal accepted the X-ray Evidence was applicable to the time.
will send further thx
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10 years 3 months ago - 10 years 3 months ago #118984 by Gordon
Replied by Gordon on topic First Tier Tribunal procedure
Luke

They are both right.

You make a request for an appeal based on there having been a Error of Law to the UTT.

A UTT judge will look at your case and decide whether there may be an Error or not. The DWP will not be asked for the input.

If there is not, then the request is refused and you cannot pursue this any further with the UTT.

If it is accepted, then the DWP will be sent a copy of your submission and asked to comment, they may agree that there has been an Error or argue that there has not. Note: this does not mean that it is accepted that an Error has occurred, just that the possibility exists.

An UTT Judge will review all of the submissions in regard to the Error and the documents from the original Tribunal to see whether they agree that there is an Error.

If they do not then the original Decision will be upheld and you cannot pursue this further with the UTT.

If they do agree then the most likely outcome is that they will order that a new FTT hearing is carried out by a new panel with a direction to avoid them making the same Error. The new hearing will re-hear all of the evidence again and make a new Decision, it is still possible that they will deny your claim if they do not believe that you meet the criteria. This new Decision can be challenged by you or the DWP as before.

It is possible that the UTT Judge will make a Decision on your claim, but this is now extremely rare and would require there to be significant and undeniable evidence in your favour.

Gordon

Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Last edit: 10 years 3 months ago by Gordon.
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  • Jim Allison BSc, Inst LE, MBIM; MA (Consumer Protection & Social Welfare Law)
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10 years 3 months ago - 10 years 3 months ago #118988 by Jim Allison BSc, Inst LE, MBIM; MA (Consumer Protection & Social Welfare Law)
Replied by Jim Allison BSc, Inst LE, MBIM; MA (Consumer Protection & Social Welfare Law) on topic First Tier Tribunal procedure
Luke,

There is little I can add to the comments I've already made and until I retired in 2005 as well as being a moderator here, I was a Welfare Rights Lawyer & former DLA Tribunal Member, so I am familiar in representing clients at Tribunals, now called First-tier Tribunals, and with Appeals which were heard by Social Security Commissioners, now called Upper Tribunal Judges.

Although titles have changed, the procedures are still the same, except for the point I made where before accepting an appeal, it is a requirement that a Mandatory Reconsideration is made before the DWP will consider an appeal. These new regulations were not made by the DWP, but by new legislation and statutory instruments introduced by the Coalition Government, some of which I predict will be appealed in the future.

As I've already explained, moderators cannot and are not authorised to give advice on individual claims in the Forum. We currently only have a handful of Moderators dealing with the forum:
bro58, Gareth , Gordon, Mrs Hurtyback, Puccalove and myself. We are all volunteers and all have chronic ill-health and or severe disability ourselves, so frequently not all moderators are online.

Often we respond to 30 plus new posts each day, not to mention follow up replies, so it is an impossible task to give advice on an individual member's claim. Also, the forum is provided as a courtesy to members, it is not part of your membership which is charged to access our guides.

The preamble in the forum clearly states : Please note: this forum is provided as a courtesy for members to share experiences, we don’t guarantee an answer to your query.

Gordon and I have done our best to answer your queries to the best of our knowledge and experience, but unless any other moderator has something to add, then I'm afraid we cannot reply to any further queries in this thread.

I'm not sure if you're aware, but even if you decide to appeal to the Upper Tribunal, there is nothing to stop you making a new claim, which can run in tandem to an appeal to a FtT or to a UT.

Best wishes.

Jim

PLEASE READ THE SPOTLIGHTS AREA OF THE FORUM REGULARLY, OTHERWISE YOU MAY MISS OUT ON IMPORTANT INFORMATION. Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Last edit: 10 years 3 months ago by Jim Allison BSc, Inst LE, MBIM; MA (Consumer Protection & Social Welfare Law). Reason: Corrected typos.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Lukeandrew
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10 years 3 months ago - 10 years 3 months ago #119000 by Lukeandrew
Replied by Lukeandrew on topic First Tier Tribunal procedure
Dear Gordon,
Unfortunately when writing and making points it is sometimes difficult not to make assumptions that the person will understand and appreciate all of the circumstances from what is written.

The Tribunal stated in their reasons that the best Evidence came from two sources, those being the August x-ray result and report which detailed the clinical condition of anterior lipping in the L4/L5 vetrtebrae and which the GP confirmed was causing persistant lower Back Pain and which was accepted by the Tribunal as being a medical condition obtaining at relevant dates and time of claim and also that from the Physiotherapist report of 11th June 2013 in which she stated that she knew of no aggravating factors in relation to my spinal function(despite her knowing that I have cervical spondylosis) and the therapist giving an opinion of what she allegedly believed that I would be able to do with no problems in respect of pain or breathlessness as regards my walking ability without any actual observations made by me of that walking she describes, which is hypothetical.( Nonsense actually because I am the one who has the problems with my pain and breathlessness not her)

Obviously she could not be aware of the lipping in my vertebrae as the X-ray evidence of that was not available to her at the time she made her report which was actually contradictory to a previous Report containing matters that she sent to my GP in April when she had discharged me stating that I may have Psoriatic Arthritis but which the Tribunal dismissed as being simply a Standard Discharge letter.

However although I have argued that the Report of the physiotherapist is deficient because of the fact that she did not know of the lipping identified from the x-ray, which is clearly an aggravating factor causing my pain and severe discomfort and thereby confirming the extent of my disability as being sufficient to satisfy the criteria for an award of HR DLA mobility component the Tribunal have regarded the Physiotherapist's report as factual evidence that shows that the clinical condition of my spine identified by the x-ray is only a slight and minimal disability.

I have even provided proof that the clinical condition that has been identified in my vertebrae gives rise to severe pain in persons generally 10 -15 years younger than myself who have had to have operations and cages inserted and which is what I am suffering from constantly but which the tribunal pass off as me having some pain when walking although apparently the physio a couple of months after telling my doctor that I have pain made a report for the DM which says I have none at all.

The Tribunal has either decided that the X-Ray report confirms the Physiotherapists opinion rather than contradicting it or else they have decided that her opinion and her report confirms that lipping on the vertebrae which causes everyone else severe pain and requiring operations is a minor ailment.

I have even pointed out that in America persons with lipping in the L4/L5 vertebrae are automatically entitled to be registered as severely disabled when suffering from that clinical condition and given details of my sister in law who with the exact same condition had to have surgery to insert a cage.

I hope this explains my predicament Gordon and many thanks for your time and help which is appreciated
kind Regards
Luke
Last edit: 10 years 3 months ago by Gordon.
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10 years 3 months ago #119003 by Lukeandrew
Replied by Lukeandrew on topic First Tier Tribunal procedure
Jim,
Thanks a lot for your time.
I am just trying to obtain as much information as I can to try and put this matter right.
I am going to try and get help with my appeal from the Welfare Rights because I do not think the way the system now works that I have got an earthly chance of being granted leave to appeal by the UT even if I can show a hundred errors of law because just as the FTT judge has said to me that I have not shown any arguable errors of law,Material to his decision I believe they will just state the same even though all case law that concerns the same Criteria for entitlement must be Material to all of the decisions unless the Tribunal were using different criteria for me than applies to everyone else which to my mind is exactly what has happened with the opinion of the physio.
kind Regards for your time and help
Luke
The following user(s) said Thank You: Jim Allison BSc, Inst LE, MBIM; MA (Consumer Protection & Social Welfare Law)
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10 years 3 months ago #119005 by Gordon
Replied by Gordon on topic First Tier Tribunal procedure
Luke

We are very limited in the advice we can offer in regard an appeal to the UTT, to offer such advice we would need to have experience of Representing claimants at UTT appeals and we would need to have access to your papers, so any advice we can give is general and is primary limited to procedure not arguing your case.

As your dispute revolves around the weight applied to particular pieces of evidence you are on shaky ground as it is not the UTT Judges role to make determination by a re-examination of the evidence used in the original hearing, but rather to look at whether the conclusions that were made were reasonable in the light of that evidence. For it to be an Error of Law you need to show that it was not reasonable.

It may be that your argument that the Physio report is not consistent with the their earlier report and the subsequent evidence revealed by the the X-rays will be accepted as an Error, you will only know by making the request for an appeal.

Gordon

Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
The following user(s) said Thank You: Jim Allison BSc, Inst LE, MBIM; MA (Consumer Protection & Social Welfare Law)
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