PIP Variable conditions?

Please can you clarify. If someone is affected by a condition on only 3 days of the week on average, in this case drop attacks (sudden collapse and loss of consciousness) in addition to other conditions that affect the person every day - will the drop attacks in this example be ignored because they don't happen on more than 50% of the days?

I guess what is confusing me is: can the variability rule regarding satisfying a particular PIP descriptor - apply by taking 2 or more different conditions in to account (rather than considering the variable effects of say only 1 condition on its own) such as drop attacks on 3 days and hallucinations on 3 days of the week? Equating to 85%, so, for example, Preparing Food - descriptor (e) - needs supervision and assistance to either prepare or cook a simple meal.

Another way of putting it is: because the drop attacks only happen 3 days a week and the hallucinations only happen 3 days a week - are there any PIP points to be gained from having these 2 condition? Or will these 2 conditions be ignored as they don't apply on more than 50% of the days?

I hope this makes sense. Any help would be great. I'm afraid I'm suffering from post PIP application trauma - the forms going around and around in my head one week after posting them. This is in relation to my daughter's PIP transfer.

Buster

Hi Buster

It's a bit of a confusing situation, isn't it.

If the drop attacks and the hallucinations occur at the same time (one triggers the other, for example) then no, I don't suppose there would be any points to be had, since only 3/7 days are affected. If, on the other hand, they do not occur at the same time, but always on different days (yes, I know, a bit hard to prove) then there should be points to be scored since effectively 6/7 days are affected.

To be perfectly honest I have no idea how you are meant to prove that the two conditions do not occur at the same time. I am assuming that you have medical evidence to support your daughter's claim - is there any way that your medical professional can establish that the two conditions are separate and occur separately? You obviously can't predict when the events are going to happen, so effectively your daughter is at risk every day of the week - I don't know whether this is the way the DWP will see the situation, but logically it's how the situation stands.

It's a bit of a moot point anyway until you hear from the decision maker; hopefully common sense will prevail. Certainly I hope your mind is put at rest quickly. You are obviously under enough pressure without the added worry of PIP.

Hello Shelam

It certainly is confusing and I'm not really thinking straight at the moment due to being overloaded with PIP information regarding this PIP application - even after the form has been sent in. God knows how sufferers and claimants go about this process without cracking up? I am just a parent and carer - therefore taking all the stress in relation to this - at least my daughter is protected as it's all beyond her comprehension.

It should really be all academic as they say (my query) as she has several other main conditions going on, all symptoms of her overall rare genetic condition. Two of these are severe visual impairment and learning disability - affecting her all the time 7 days a week. So, she should score 12 points over the entire activities for these 2 conditions alone?

Back to my query; the 2 conditions are different conditions, although the hallucinations can be triggered by stress resulting from a drop attack. They can and do happen on the same days and different days.

The not being able to predict factor is another thing to consider as you say - but I didn't want to make my query sound even more confusing. But actually, this is what we'll be saying - the risk is always there - affecting confidence etc - in turn effecting nearly all her daily activities - resulting in supervision (continuous) just because of drop attacks alone.

I think she will almost certainly qualify for PIP, however, it has brought it home to me just how difficult this bloody process is, and the levels of stress and uncertainty created when someone "only" has say a couple of varying conditions, but still debilitating when all said and done - to not know for sure if they would qualify.

Thank you very much for your help Shelam.

Buster

Thank you ever so much Gordon. I've now just read this news item. This is really interesting and reassuring to know - if it comes to needing to rely on this situation.

From the Judge's ruling and his workings out I can quickly see that my daughter's drop attacks and her hallucinations equate to 4.71/7 in terms of days affected = over 50% of the time. I appreciate proving one doesn't cause the other is another matter altogether.

Hopefully it won't come to this - but I'm so glad I asked - I have learnt something else in the world of PIP which can only help regarding me getting my head around this process. As always, thanks for your help.

Buster

Hi
there is something else that's bugging me regarding variability, any advice would be great.

Regarding her varying ability to mobilise (past ESA claim) and moving around (current PIP transfer), basically walking in my daughter's case, it will appear to DWP that there has been an improvement in her moving around (walking) ability. Technically there has been because her ability with this varies month to month year to year.

My worry here is: is this likely to raise eyebrows at the DWP? My own view is it shouldn't do because:

Briefly, we are not expecting or arguing to score any points for PIP with moving around and we have ticked the it varies box whilst explaining how far she can CURRENTLY walk before experiencing severe breathlessness. The information given will not gain her any PIP points at all for this activity.

However, regarding her past ESA claim made 18 months ago; we made the case for her being awarded 6 points under mobilising. We didn't bother asking for her report - so don't know for sure. I'm only guessing, she will have scored highly with all the other ESA descriptors - hence her SG award. In short the 6 points she may have been awarded for mobilising at that time wouldn't have made any difference to the level of award anyway.

We've just tried to be honest. In a few months time her walking ability in terms of distance may well be back to her past level - there isn't a lot in it anyway. Any advice would be great.

Buster