DLA to PIP, mandatory reconsideration and appeal.

Hi, I found your site after I had started the transition from DLA to PIP I wish I had found it sooner.
In early October I sent off the paperwork and weeks later received an assessment date for Dec23rd at the Glasgow Salus, I had asked for a home assessment and I called ATOS to ask why one had not been offered. I was told that because of my PTSD fight or flight responses (I'm a disabled veteran) I was deemed a threat to their assessor therefore a home visit was out of the question. I made a formal complaint about this and eventually after the assessment they got back to me to say I actually should have had a home assessment.

I attended the assessment centre accompanied by a friend who is a social worker, who planned the journey drove us there and parked just 15 metres from the entrance, we were early and I had not slept for at least 36 hours which is not unusual I looked like death warmed up. The assessor called my name 10 minutes later than the appointed time, during the wait I had started having a panic attack as the room was filling up. On hearing my name I used the pillar that I was sat next to to help me stand and walked three metres to the assessor and asked how far the room was, she said not far, we walked slowly six metres to a door which turned out to be a lift where I began to panic properly as I hate confined spaces my companion helped calm me, we exited the lift and walked a further six metres to a room where I was told to sit I used the table and chair to help me sit as the assessor had her back to us shutting the door.

I had asked to record the assessment as my memory is bad due to my PTSD but had been told I needed specialist equipment which I was unable to source, however I covertly recorded the assessment. The Assessment lasted around an hour and during it I was struggling to answer questions, stuttering and stammering and finding it difficult to find the right words again which are very much part of my combined conditions. During the assessment I realised that she had not asked me about one of my main conditions suicidal ideation I told her this and was told we would come back to that, near the end she gave me time to explain about it. I left and was taken home and spent the next 4 days in bed as I was mentally and physically exhausted.

I had found your site and looked at some of the information and requested from ATOS a copy of the assessment which took a week or so to arrive, to say I was gobsmacked was an understatement it had no real bearing on what actually happened that day or indeed how I was. It was stated I walked unaided 30 metres to the room (it was actually 15 punctuated by a stop and a lift journey) but under her observations she had said does not look tired, well kept, articulate, normal speech etc all of which were untrue as backed up by the person accompanying me who was also taking notes. But the biggest shock was that she had completely deleted the section where we spoke about my suicidal ideation and its affects on daily living and also written my previous cancer as a completely different one further making this document and assessment unsafe.

The decision letter arrived a few weeks later and I had been awarded standard care and mobility missing the higher rates by 1 point ( I had been on high rate care and mobility DLA for over 6 years). I asked for an immediate mandatory reconsideration and after researching your site sent a 5500 word 10 page document debunking the ATOS report and showing clearly where the right descriptors for my conditions were which would have put me way over the required points for enhanced both. Very quickly a letter arrived stating that the original decision stood with a very condescending nonsensical 200 word statement as a decision. I called and asked for a callback from the decision maker a week went by and no call I called again and asked to speak to a manager who stated that the callback had miraculously been cancelled all by itself. I again asked for the decision maker to call me back. A few days later I received a call from a decision maker not the one dealing with my case but someone else who proceeded to tell me although she empathised with me and was sorry I was upset but that the ATOS report was being held up as all the evidence they needed, she went on to say that the document I had sent in was not considered as evidence and the ATOS report was the best evidence. I pointed out that they had missed off one of my main conditions and that they hadn't even got my cancer correct, She stated it didn't matter and I would need to appeal, I have a recording of the conversation where she admits that the report is flawed but until their bosses tell them other wise they will uphold it. I was speechless.

Subsequently my car has been taken back and any perceived independence I had has been taken away including the ability to get to and from work. I had a further breakdown and am under the crisis team and psychiatry and on a lot more medication than before.

I went to welfare rights and have started the appeal it has been sent, my companion from the day of the assessment has written a three page statement of the true events of that day, my psychiatrist is writing in support of my claim and my GP is due to write a lengthy report showing how I meet the descriptors. I thought all was done and was just going to have to wait until the appeal tribunal date, when today I received a phone call from the DWP from someone purporting to be from the disability a carers service PIP team, who was thoroughly rude and obnoxious and during the call told me that a tribunal would not look at any other evidence other than the original flawed ATOS report and the only recourse was for me to complain to ATOS directly. I told him that I was emailing all my evidence directly to Director General Noel Shannahan, this person alluded that Mr Shannahan was his line manager and that what I had said was a threat. I ended the call when I had had enough of being talked over by an obnoxious idiot and the fact I couldn't breathe properly and had started to go into a full on panic attack.

I know my post is so very long and boring but I really need to tell my story as I really can not believe that the DWP are getting away with fraud.

Are these phone calls normal practice or was I just unlucky?

Sorry to have made such a long first post. Please keep up the fight and continue to do your great work.

Peace.

Artisan wrote: Hi, I found your site after I had started the transition from DLA to PIP I wish I had found it sooner.
In early October I sent off the paperwork and weeks later received an assessment date for Dec23rd at the Glasgow Salus, I had asked for a home assessment and I called ATOS to ask why one had not been offered. I was told that because of my PTSD fight or flight responses (I'm a disabled veteran) I was deemed a threat to their assessor therefore a home visit was out of the question. I made a formal complaint about this and eventually after the assessment they got back to me to say I actually should have had a home assessment.

I attended the assessment centre accompanied by a friend who is a social worker, who planned the journey drove us there and parked just 15 metres from the entrance, we were early and I had not slept for at least 36 hours which is not unusual I looked like death warmed up. The assessor called my name 10 minutes later than the appointed time, during the wait I had started having a panic attack as the room was filling up. On hearing my name I used the pillar that I was sat next to to help me stand and walked three metres to the assessor and asked how far the room was, she said not far, we walked slowly six metres to a door which turned out to be a lift where I began to panic properly as I hate confined spaces my companion helped calm me, we exited the lift and walked a further six metres to a room where I was told to sit I used the table and chair to help me sit as the assessor had her back to us shutting the door.

I had asked to record the assessment as my memory is bad due to my PTSD but had been told I needed specialist equipment which I was unable to source, however I covertly recorded the assessment. The Assessment lasted around an hour and during it I was struggling to answer questions, stuttering and stammering and finding it difficult to find the right words again which are very much part of my combined conditions. During the assessment I realised that she had not asked me about one of my main conditions suicidal ideation I told her this and was told we would come back to that, near the end she gave me time to explain about it. I left and was taken home and spent the next 4 days in bed as I was mentally and physically exhausted.

I had found your site and looked at some of the information and requested from ATOS a copy of the assessment which took a week or so to arrive, to say I was gobsmacked was an understatement it had no real bearing on what actually happened that day or indeed how I was. It was stated I walked unaided 30 metres to the room (it was actually 15 punctuated by a stop and a lift journey) but under her observations she had said does not look tired, well kept, articulate, normal speech etc all of which were untrue as backed up by the person accompanying me who was also taking notes. But the biggest shock was that she had completely deleted the section where we spoke about my suicidal ideation and its affects on daily living and also written my previous cancer as a completely different one further making this document and assessment unsafe.

The decision letter arrived a few weeks later and I had been awarded standard care and mobility missing the higher rates by 1 point ( I had been on high rate care and mobility DLA for over 6 years). I asked for an immediate mandatory reconsideration and after researching your site sent a 5500 word 10 page document debunking the ATOS report and showing clearly where the right descriptors for my conditions were which would have put me way over the required points for enhanced both. Very quickly a letter arrived stating that the original decision stood with a very condescending nonsensical 200 word statement as a decision. I called and asked for a callback from the decision maker a week went by and no call I called again and asked to speak to a manager who stated that the callback had miraculously been cancelled all by itself. I again asked for the decision maker to call me back. A few days later I received a call from a decision maker not the one dealing with my case but someone else who proceeded to tell me although she empathised with me and was sorry I was upset but that the ATOS report was being held up as all the evidence they needed, she went on to say that the document I had sent in was not considered as evidence and the ATOS report was the best evidence. I pointed out that they had missed off one of my main conditions and that they hadn't even got my cancer correct, She stated it didn't matter and I would need to appeal, I have a recording of the conversation where she admits that the report is flawed but until their bosses tell them other wise they will uphold it. I was speechless.

Subsequently my car has been taken back and any perceived independence I had has been taken away including the ability to get to and from work. I had a further breakdown and am under the crisis team and psychiatry and on a lot more medication than before.

I went to welfare rights and have started the appeal it has been sent, my companion from the day of the assessment has written a three page statement of the true events of that day, my psychiatrist is writing in support of my claim and my GP is due to write a lengthy report showing how I meet the descriptors. I thought all was done and was just going to have to wait until the appeal tribunal date, when today I received a phone call from the DWP from someone purporting to be from the disability a carers service PIP team, who was thoroughly rude and obnoxious and during the call told me that a tribunal would not look at any other evidence other than the original flawed ATOS report and the only recourse was for me to complain to ATOS directly. I told him that I was emailing all my evidence directly to Director General Noel Shannahan, this person alluded that Mr Shannahan was his line manager and that what I had said was a threat. I ended the call when I had had enough of being talked over by an obnoxious idiot and the fact I couldn't breathe properly and had started to go into a full on panic attack.

I know my post is so very long and boring but I really need to tell my story as I really can not believe that the DWP are getting away with fraud.

Are these phone calls normal practice or was I just unlucky?

Sorry to have made such a long first post. Please keep up the fight and continue to do your great work.

Peace.

Hi A,

I am sorry to hear that you have lost your Motability Car due to not receiving an Enhanced PIP Mobility Award !!

I gather that you are aware of : This !

You are not alone, and PIP was specifically developed with a view to cutting the disability welfare bill.

"Are these phone calls normal practice or was I just unlucky?

I would not say that it is "normal" to have phone contact with a PIP DM/Manager nowadays, but the gist of their response is pretty "par for the course" !!

Have a read through the following generic information, even though you have the PA4 and are now at the Appeal stage, you may find some of the content helpful :

You have one month from the date of the PIP Decision Notice letter to make a written request for a Mandatory Reconsideration (MR) of the PIP decision.

Sending Documents to the DWP.

You could also ring the PIP Helpline :

Telephone: 0345 850 3322
Textphone: 0345 601 6677
Monday to Friday, 8am to 6pm

To request a copy of The PA4 PIP Medical Report compiled by the PIP Assessor at your face to face and sent to The DWP PIP DM to be used when the DM came to their decision.

If you have any problems obtaining The PA4 with a verbal request, you can make a written request which should be done as a separate issue to any MR request :

You can do this using a SAR Form :

SAR Form Download

From this page :

DWP Data Protection Policy

Or you can make the request in the form of a letter, as long as you make it clear that you are making a formal SAR under The Data Protection Act 1998.

Address the envelope : FAO The Data Controller, at the Benefits Office dealing with your PIP.

Write DPA 1998 SAR in front, top, left corner of envelope.

Once received, they have 40 calendar days to comply.

You should not miss your one month deadline if The PA4 or any other supporting evidence that you may be awaiting has not arrived.

You can make comment that you have requested this and will submit further evidence if applicable when you receive it.

Once you have The PA4, you can then pose any counter arguments to the PIP Assessors recommendations.

e.g. If they are stating that you can carry out a particular PIP Activity, has it been taken into account that to be classed as being able to carry out a PIP Activity, you must be able to do so Reliably and Safely for The Majority of Days

If the Assessor has stated that they witnessed you Walking a set distance have they taken into account the above, the time it took you to do so, and any pain, discomfort and breathless, etc that you may have suffered whilst doing so ? etc, etc, etc !!

You should be aware that when you request an MR, any current PIP Awards, Daily Living and/or Mobility, that you might have, can be increased, reduced or taken away altogether, as they will look at the whole PIP Awards afresh.

Obviously if you have no current PIP Award, there is no risk involved.

See : PIP MR/Appeals Guidance.

Disability Rights UK Factsheet - Appeals and Mandatory Reconsiderations.

Once you have gone through The MR Process, if you are still unsuccessful, you have one month from the date of The MR Decision Notice Letter to appeal directly to The Tribunal Service. (TS)

You should do this using one copy of The MR Notice letter (keep the othercopy) and the : SSCS 1 Form (Download Link)

All this is explained in our PIP Appeals Guidance

You should concentrate on reiterating where and why you should have scored the extra points with respect to the applicable PIP Activities and the appropriate scoring PIP Descriptor for that Activity, whilst cross-referencing to any medical evidence that you have, or may have already provided which indicates that you should have.

See also : PIP Self Test

PIP Points Scoring System

&

PIP Claims Guide. (2nd Link down the page)

Please keep us updated !

You should Bookmark/Favourite this page in your Internet Browser now. That way you can return to this topic easily to pose any further queries that you may have by replying to the topic.

See : This Topic also !

Thanks in anticipation of your future co-operation in keeping all your PIP related queries to this topic !

bro58

Thank you bro58 for your very detailed very quick reply.

I have the PA4 from ATOS and have gone through the mandatory reconsideration with the same outcome still standard rate for care and standard rate for mobility missing high rate on both by 1 point.

I have lodged an appeal and am in the process of getting further medical evidence from my specialists and GP. Most of my concern lies in the phone call I received yesterday from the DWP advising my only way forward is to complain to ATOS about the report, as a tribunal will not look at any new evidence only the ATOS report. I thought that an appeal tribunal by law must consider all evidence? He also kept stating that the ATOS assessor is a trained disability specialist and therefore knows more than the medical professionals treating me and even with the glaring errors in the report the DWP will still uphold it as a correct assessment. This is fraud as knowingly forcing appeal because of flawed evidence surely defrauds the public purse as I imagine tribunals are not cost free.

I will challenge the report with ATOS too and will be contacting any professional bodies the nurse who did the assessment is registered with.

Anyway today is another day.

Peace.

Hi. I challenged a DWP DM successfully during mandatory consideration by approaching my MP.

it was actually a child claim so no third party involved but the statement of reasons I received for refusal were factually incorrect, never mind poor judgement and interpretation.

I was arguing with DWP staff on the phone whilst my child lay in ICU with his chest open as number two in their list of reasons stated, 'no intervention planned'.

One we were discharged I went to the MP and the office registered a complaint with the DWP. I had a DM call me within two weeks and turn a declined application into HRC and LRM award.

Challenge the incorrect facts and it can be done before appeal. I do realise child cases have different rules and legislation but I just wanted to share how glaring wrong they can be and how I got it resolved.

Good luck.

Thank you Dizzy Lizzy and Gordon for your posts.
I've taken on board the points and feel galvanised to press forward.