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Tribunal & Legal Challenges - Flawed PIP Assessment
- Gordon
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1 year 3 weeks ago #284992 by Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gordon on topic Tribunal & Legal Challenges - Flawed PIP Assessment
M
From the PIP Assessment Guide Part 2
Activity 12 – Moving around
"This activity should be judged in relation to a type of surface normally expected out of doors, such as pavements on the flat and includes the consideration of kerbs."
Gordon
From the PIP Assessment Guide Part 2
Activity 12 – Moving around
"This activity should be judged in relation to a type of surface normally expected out of doors, such as pavements on the flat and includes the consideration of kerbs."
Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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8 months 2 weeks ago #288678 by MDBond
Replied by MDBond on topic Tribunal & Legal Challenges - Flawed PIP Assessment
Hi
I have my tribunal hearing this Friday and it's in person
I believe that I can make points about the appeal so I'm just writing notes to help me with this. These points aren't in my appeal/submissions document as I didn't know about them when I sent those documents in to the Tribunal.
The main point I want to make is about moving around being outside the house, as Gordon referred to above.
My conditions mean I don't go outside for the majority of each month, as I'm either in too much pain to walk or physically/mentally exhausted from the illness. I have said this consistently. The DWP decided I could stand and walk for 50 metres. Yet if I don't go outside, then surely I can say I don't believe any steps I take inside the house should count, and therefore my assertion of not being able to move more than 20 metres should qualify for the 12 points as requested?
Is this the way I should say this to the Tribunal? And should I say this at the beginning or end? I would prefer to say it at the start so time isn't wasted going over it at the end if the Tribunal aren't expecting me to say it.
Thanks in advance for any help and if there are any other tips, please feel free to share.
I have my tribunal hearing this Friday and it's in person
I believe that I can make points about the appeal so I'm just writing notes to help me with this. These points aren't in my appeal/submissions document as I didn't know about them when I sent those documents in to the Tribunal.
The main point I want to make is about moving around being outside the house, as Gordon referred to above.
From the PIP Assessment Guide Part 2
Activity 12 – Moving around
"This activity should be judged in relation to a type of surface normally expected out of doors, such as pavements on the flat and includes the consideration of kerbs."
My conditions mean I don't go outside for the majority of each month, as I'm either in too much pain to walk or physically/mentally exhausted from the illness. I have said this consistently. The DWP decided I could stand and walk for 50 metres. Yet if I don't go outside, then surely I can say I don't believe any steps I take inside the house should count, and therefore my assertion of not being able to move more than 20 metres should qualify for the 12 points as requested?
Is this the way I should say this to the Tribunal? And should I say this at the beginning or end? I would prefer to say it at the start so time isn't wasted going over it at the end if the Tribunal aren't expecting me to say it.
Thanks in advance for any help and if there are any other tips, please feel free to share.
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8 months 2 weeks ago #288686 by Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gordon on topic Tribunal & Legal Challenges - Flawed PIP Assessment
M
Your terminology may undermine your argument.
You say "I don't go outside", this is not about what you do not do but rather what you cannot do, the difference may seem trivial but it could be fundamental to your arguments.
Whilst the test is the distance you can move outside, it is not unreasonable for the assessor to infer from your walking indoors, what you may be able to walk outdoors. You need to explain how they are different and how those differences affect your walking distance outdoors.
Tribunal hearings are inquisitorial, which means that the panel will ask you questions which you will need to reply to, there is no presentation of the DWP's case and then yours as in a criminal trial.
You will have an opportunity to raise additional points at the end of the Tribunal.
Gordon
Your terminology may undermine your argument.
You say "I don't go outside", this is not about what you do not do but rather what you cannot do, the difference may seem trivial but it could be fundamental to your arguments.
Whilst the test is the distance you can move outside, it is not unreasonable for the assessor to infer from your walking indoors, what you may be able to walk outdoors. You need to explain how they are different and how those differences affect your walking distance outdoors.
Tribunal hearings are inquisitorial, which means that the panel will ask you questions which you will need to reply to, there is no presentation of the DWP's case and then yours as in a criminal trial.
You will have an opportunity to raise additional points at the end of the Tribunal.
Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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8 months 2 weeks ago #288698 by MDBond
Replied by MDBond on topic Tribunal & Legal Challenges - Flawed PIP Assessment
Thank you.
You're right, I'm in a habit of saying 'I don't do x' because it's easier for me. I will try my hardest not to say that.
Would it be better to say 'I can't do x because my symptoms make it unsafe for me to try and do that...' etc?
It's hard to know what this will be like, as I've never been to a Tribunal, so yes I am imagining it will be like a court and I'll be treated like a criminal
When you say the Tribunal will ask inquisitorial questions, do you mean they will simply ask the same questions the DWP would? Are there examples anywhere of the type of questions they will ask?
Thank you in advance. I'm getting nervous now.
You're right, I'm in a habit of saying 'I don't do x' because it's easier for me. I will try my hardest not to say that.
Would it be better to say 'I can't do x because my symptoms make it unsafe for me to try and do that...' etc?
It's hard to know what this will be like, as I've never been to a Tribunal, so yes I am imagining it will be like a court and I'll be treated like a criminal
When you say the Tribunal will ask inquisitorial questions, do you mean they will simply ask the same questions the DWP would? Are there examples anywhere of the type of questions they will ask?
Thank you in advance. I'm getting nervous now.
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8 months 2 weeks ago #288700 by Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gordon on topic Tribunal & Legal Challenges - Flawed PIP Assessment
M
Having gone through the process myself I will admit that it can be intimidating sitting across a table from three individuals who will decide your fate.
They may ask the same questions as your assessor they will certainly ask different ones, the only advice I can really offer is to think before you answer, they are not trying to trick you but you should consider your answer before replying, the "don't"/"can't" is a good example of this.
Yes, this is the approach to take, I can't do something and here is why.
There are panels that don't listen but the vast majority are fair and render the correct Decision.
Gordon
Having gone through the process myself I will admit that it can be intimidating sitting across a table from three individuals who will decide your fate.
They may ask the same questions as your assessor they will certainly ask different ones, the only advice I can really offer is to think before you answer, they are not trying to trick you but you should consider your answer before replying, the "don't"/"can't" is a good example of this.
Yes, this is the approach to take, I can't do something and here is why.
There are panels that don't listen but the vast majority are fair and render the correct Decision.
Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
The following user(s) said Thank You: Sheila 966, MDBond
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8 months 2 weeks ago #288715 by MDBond
Replied by MDBond on topic Tribunal & Legal Challenges - Flawed PIP Assessment
Thank you very much Gordon, I really appreciate you sharing your wisdom and experience of what a Tribunal is like
You're right. I will be sure to think before I answer and take my time when I do. I will also keep in mind 'can't' and regulations 4 and 7 and explain how I meet those in all cases. I've also done this in my appeal document which I will have with me to read from if needed.
I will be sure to post here afterwards, no matter what the outcome is. Fingers crossed for a positive one and a receptive panel
You're right. I will be sure to think before I answer and take my time when I do. I will also keep in mind 'can't' and regulations 4 and 7 and explain how I meet those in all cases. I've also done this in my appeal document which I will have with me to read from if needed.
I will be sure to post here afterwards, no matter what the outcome is. Fingers crossed for a positive one and a receptive panel
The following user(s) said Thank You: denby, Sheila 966, Wendy Woo
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