Most commentators have assumed that the Conservatives would always vote in favour of anything that resembled a benefits cut. But there now seems to be a possibility that the Tories are planning to support Labour rebels and vote against Labour’s Green Paper.

On 18 May, Conservative MP Helen Whately told the Standard: “Labour’s plans dodge the difficult decisions on welfare, leave more people out of work than they put in and will hit some of the nation’s poorest people.

“The sickness benefits bill is spiralling out of control and these rushed reforms will make things worse, not better.

“These plans are cruel, careless and clumsy. And it seems that even some of the people closest to Reeves agree with us, not her.”

What makes this total condemnation of the Green Paper particularly noteworthy is that Whately is the Conservative shadow secretary for work and pensions.  It seems unlikely that she would have been so outspoken in her criticism without party approval.

It is clear that the rebellion on Labour’s back benches has been growing in the two months since the Green Paper was published.

On 1 April, the Labour List website published the names of 27 MPs who said they would rebel against the government and 15 more who had expressed opposition to the Green Paper.

On 8 May, 42 Labour MPs wrote to the prime minister to say the cuts were impossible to support.

On 15 May, ITV reported that 50 Labour MPs were set to rebel, including the 42 who had signed the original letter.  100 MPs had also signed a private letter to Starmer urging the government to delay the changes and rethink its proposals. At least 6 MPs signed both letters.

Which suggests that somewhere in the region of 130 Labour MPs oppose the cuts, though there is no suggestion they would all vote against them.

The labour leadership are said to be considering a number of ways to buy off the rebels.  These include changes to the winter fuel payment means-test, changes to the two child limit or changes to the benefits cap. 

The idea will be to tell rebel MPs that the government doesn’t have the cash help these groups and also to drop its Green Paper cuts.

Whether this is a pitch that will work, remains to be seen.

But there seems to be at least a possibility that the Conservatives are now positioning themselves to take advantage of Labour’s disarray.

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  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 1 hours ago
    CAB have now turned on the government, and more unions.
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    · 1 hours ago
    People need to keep emailing MPs before vote and say the cuts can't happen not all MPs will buy the uturn and abig number should still vote against the cuts .
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 1 hours ago
    Lies, hypocrisy and cruelty. You’re finished Starmer. 

    I never thought I’d say that but there we are.
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      · 19 minutes ago
      @The Dogmother "PCS’s Department of Work and Pensions group president Angela Grant meanwhile said that violence at jobcentres has “escalated off the planet” due to a rise in far-right rhetoric by politicians.

      She said that a member of staff had their car set on fire, others have been issued death threats and blades have been carried into jobcentres."

      Yep, I'd consider this Exhibit A-Z as to why very few are willing to work at a Jobcentre.

      To be honest, whoever is working at Jobcentres should absolutely stand up alongside disabled people. The government doesn't care about us finding work, so they certainly don't care about your safety. You're also a sacrifice they're willing to make.
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    · 2 hours ago
    The whole process gives insufficient chance for in depth debate. The fact the speaker of the hoc will stop anyone for not being brief says it all about an administration that will not settle to a task and work it through thoroughly.

    So few of those responsible for devising, deciding on or implementing these welfare measures have even the slimmest understanding of the system. They just want to sweep forward, further and faster, brushing all the untidy loose ends under the carpet, leaving the whole muddle to surface and smother us when it's too late to sort it.

    There's no regard for those who are bound to be collateral damage, it's just an experiment.
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      · 38 minutes ago
      @godgivemestrength Yes, you’re right. But if we have to spoon feed them the information, let’s keep it coming. Let’s make sure they can’t ignore us. Keep biting at their heels until we become too annoying to ignore. I’m a realist, and I know we might fail, but if we lie down and give up we most definitely will. 
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    · 2 hours ago
    I'll write again to Race (Exeter MP) again, but not hopeful he has changed his mind. 

    We need at least 75 labour MP's to vote against the planned changes in the Green Paper (not just to abstain).  If we do get a really substantial rebellion then Starmer/Reeves/Kendall may decide to change tack/concessions. We can hope that the House of Lords, and particularly when the Bill enters the committee stage, that amendments will be made.  It will not be perfect and clearly the days of the welfare state as a whole are numbered, but at least it may not be totally catastrophic. Keep mentioning: a, the added costs that these cuts will provoke (mandatory reconsiderations, tribunals and added stress on social care and the medical professions) and b: that as a block we are very large minority who can - and hopefully will - vote against labour at the next GE, although I fear what the consequences of that might be....
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      · 43 minutes ago
      @MATT I wrote to my MP again for a second time to see if she might change her mind . Still awaiting an answer but I do know that her original reply was the almost exact words of some other MP reply that was put on this site .. Are they all told to write the same answer in their replies. 
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    · 2 hours ago
    He's AI, isn't he, Starmer? We'll have to find a way to re-code him, or short cIrcuit the motherboard so we can find a human to talk to.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 41 minutes ago
      @rtbcpart 2 I thought we got rid of Maybot?
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 1 hours ago
      @rtbcpart 2 Ha! What a genius idea!
      Reprogramme him- the answer to all our problems! 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 3 hours ago

    Another analysis that proves the government's claims about work setting us free and getting us all out of poverty is yet another lie.  Not that we didn't all know this anyway.
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    · 3 hours ago
    I too believe that they'll press ahead with the cuts, GB News/Telegraph/Sun/Daily Mail and Reform can all celebrate as their pensioners, many of whom don't need 300 pounds get their WFA once again and they can all go back to bashing the disabled as useless eaters ect. 

    I'm feeling a little bitter to be honest.
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      · 1 hours ago
      @Dave Dee Me too, I'm growing very tired of constantly hearing about the one-off 300 pound WFA payment, meanwhile we sick and disabled are about to lose literally ALL of our income, totalling thousands of pounds. I wish people would realise the truly dire situation the sick and disabled are currently in!
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    · 3 hours ago
    I note they keep harping on about winter fuel cuts no doubt only to secure the pensioner vote rather than any real empathetic reason. And yet, disabled and long term sick will be penalised by a loss of thousands per year to their only income. As Kendall and Reeves and co plod on regardless with all this.
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      · 1 hours ago
      @lamchops The only reason WFA will be changed in any way is for votes If the number crunchers say it is a viable vote winner it will happen in some form If it is not worth the effort no change will happen 
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      · 2 hours ago
      @Jobsworth Zero Today That I think is the point it is a cheaper option to  hand out £300 once a year than regular payments of pip, so they will swamp the press how caring they are giving pensioners there WFA back.
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    · 5 hours ago
    Winter fuel payment u-turn announced.  I fear this is bad for us - "we'll change our mind on this if you vote for disability cuts."  Though the bbc says it will emboldem mps wanting the disability cuts to not go ahead.

    On the other hand, it means that, even when a policy has gone through, there is still hope.
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      · 2 hours ago
      @Slb
      Just the divisive politics I was fully expecting them to pull.  Play off one group against another, attempt to cut the dissent and rebellion down at the lowest cost, appease enough and silence enough to carry on with the most abhorrent plans.
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      · 2 hours ago
      @Slb I would think that saying to their own MPs "we'll back down on the WFA if you let us throw sick and disabled people under the bus" is not likely to go down well.
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      · 3 hours ago
      @Slb Any MP worth their principles will still stand by us. It’s a betrayal if they don’t and I’m afraid they’d have to face any negativity from that. Because I might be behind a phone keyboard but I am sure as hell not giving up. This is wrong and I’ll keep banging on and on until they sort it out properly 
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      · 4 hours ago
      @Slb Don’t give up 
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    · 5 hours ago
    Is Whatley speaking on behalf of the same conservatives, whose own cuts/green paper was only scrapped when they lost the general election? 
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    · 7 hours ago
    To scapegoat the most vulnerable is a disgrace. How will the disabled who can't work be able to survive? Government know this but as long as they save money they don't care! Disabled people are made to feel like second class citizens 



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      · 1 hours ago
      @Caroline67 Do not forget malingerers and fraudsters
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      · 3 hours ago
      @Liv Heard Kendalls speech today in London, currently on Youtube. Made me cringe.
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      · 4 hours ago
      @Liv We are not disabled to them we are lazy scroungers
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    · 7 hours ago
    Just had a phone call from Ed Davey. I maxed out the opportunity to raise all the priority points, particularly that PIP is not an out of work benefit, so removing it will 1)not help people into work and 2)will cause people to have to leave work. That removing PIP has a domino effect on UC and carer's allowance. That WFA, although vital for many, is a drop in the ocean compared to what will be lost by disabled households. Also that this is not the economic climate to daydream that employers will pick disabled people for their vacancies over non disabled people. He said he plans to raise our case in PMQs today. I hope that he does. 
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      · 3 hours ago
      @Gingin I think in any fight of this kind it's they who fight longest, rather than shout loudest, who win. Fair play to you for sticking at it.
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      · 3 hours ago
      @Cecelia He will indeed! Starmer is cold and heartless, I detest him.

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      · 3 hours ago
      @Gingin
      "We just need to keep banging on- all of us. That’s why I got to speak to him in the first place."

      That's the key point - keep up the pressure on MPs, especially Labour MPs. The rebellion on the Labour backbenches seems to be growing and that momentum needs to be maintained. In particular, the government cannot be allowed to get away with making concessions on the WFA and two child cap as a way of bribing its own MPs into throwing sick and disabled people under the bus.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 4 hours ago
      @Gingin Thanks for the update, sorry I hope you know your efforts are appreciated it’s just hard personal lot not to feel utterly hopeless at the moment.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 4 hours ago
      @gingin Nice work! 
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    · 8 hours ago
    Concessions on wfp and 2 child cap are maximum impact minimum pain for the government. The general population can get on board with loving nanas and kids and virtue signalling their outrage when those groups are threatened. It's the cute factor, whereas with the disabled, not so much.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 3 hours ago
      @rookie I think we’re cute. Downright adorable in fact. 
      Know what you mean.
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    · 9 hours ago
    Our case might be raised by Lib Dems in PMQs today!!
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      · 7 hours ago
      @gingin can't wait to hear the same two or three sentences memorised by the government to spill out again !
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    · 11 hours ago
    In The Guardian this morning, Kendall is lying again, “That is why we are grasping the nettle of welfare reform. Not for the sake of it, but to save it.” 

    Labour states another admission that previous 'reforms' have been dismal failures that have only served to further impoverish the most impoverished. 

    Instead of raising taxes on the ultrawealthy, who would not be even marginally affected, the poorest and most vulnerable get no carrot but plenty of stick. When will politicians stop punishing the vulnerable for their suffering?

    In my estimation, The Guardian isn't winning any accolades for accuracy either, by quoting the government's own impact assessment: (paraphrased) cuts to Pip and the health element of UC means 3.2m households losing an average of £1,720 a year in benefits. Well known for reporting facts and doing their own research on important matters, this is not just lazy journalism, but gaslighting at its finest. 

    Because once again, other disability wards that will be impacted by these cuts are not even mentioned. Just PIP and UC. And without other disability claimants included, the number of claimants that would be affected are much higher than 3.2m. Because claimants with old style disability benefits such as DLA -some of whom are Pensioners- would also lose a significant portion of annual income. (For pensioners who have already lost WFA, I shudder to think how they would manage. And it's likely that many won't.) Those with DLA Higher Rate Mobility will lose £4,006.60 per year, and those with Higher Rate Care Component would lose £5,740.80 per year. That's magnitudes above 'the average' of £1,720 a year. If major newspapers aren't reporting it, the public and electorate aren't aware of it. 

    I try to always comment below news articles, to clarify omissions, inaccuracies, generalisations, and gaslighting. That paper has consistently and deliberately not allowed comments on welfare cuts by not including the comments section. 
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      · 42 minutes ago
      @naheegan I remember in the days of the coalition's austerity drive,the Guardian was alarmingly silent on voicing opposition to the cruel policies being implemented.True,there were notable opinion pieces by Owen Jones and Frances Ryan,but these were outliers;editorially the paper was silent on the subject.One would have expected a supposed left-leaning instution to be outraged at such policies,as laudably the Telegraph had been regarding excessive mps' expenses.Plus ça change!
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 3 hours ago
      @Mad Si Delusional. Lives in an economic fantasyland. 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 5 hours ago
      @naheegan Its a funny old world this is
      as it always seems the same
      For its the rich that get richer
      and its the poor that get the blame
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 6 hours ago
      @naheegan Read this article, Kendall's justifications are just mind blowing 
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      · 8 hours ago
      @naheegan "Not for the sake of it, but to save it." The vacuous sound bite. 
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    · 17 hours ago
    Removing the child cap and reinstating the winter fuel allowance ain’t going to be enough. The wfa is once a year but to cut your pip is losing 12 wfa a year. 
    The news channels are deliberately only mentioning the fuel allowance and not a mention of pip savagery. 
    Are these news channels acting upon instruction from the government to lay it on thick about the fuel allowance while they sneak the pip cuts through. Oh we are reinstating the fuel allowance for pensioners we ain’t as bad as people make out seems to be the modus operandi!!
    They cannot be let get away with this absolute victimisation of those of us that are unfortunate enough to be disabled. 
    The media make out it’s a life of Riley being disabled and money thrown at us for free. 
    We have already one of the harshest systems in Europe to qualify for our benefits. And out of the top 20 benefit systems in Europe the Uk comes in at a miserable 15 th place. I challenge anyone to go through the humiliation from the dwp and vilification on the media we get and try and stay strong whilst fighting a disability also. 
    The 4 point rule has to go its savergy in its finest form. I would live to be back at my work and away every morning at 5 am like I used to but alas them days are gone not by choice but by illness. 
    Everyone write to your mp and enlighten them what this is doing to people’s physical and mental health.  
    Osbournes austerity cost 330000 excess deaths from 2012-19. 
    These cuts from labour will cause significantly more excess deaths guaranteed is that really who we are as a country now that we accept the culling of the infirm as if they were Nothing but a burden. Keep the fight up people and do the right thing not just anything. Take care all b
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 18 hours ago
    I cannot believe the Winter fuel Allowance is garnering so much media attention,it is £200 or £300 a YEAR.Around £5 a week at most.But they are pitting pensioners against disabled who are set to lose almost their entire income,thousands of pounds,just to balance the books! If this goes through I can't imagine how many stories of destitute sick ,disabled people there will be.Right before the next election.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 4 hours ago
      @Claire Exactly, ur situation is far more dire and yet it's kicking up barely any fightback compared to the WFA, despite the fact we're set to lose our entire income!
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 7 hours ago
      @Claire I agree, more needs to be said about the disabled, it's not a one off loss but like you say their entire income so how are they expected to live. It's an absolute disgrace made to feel like the biggest burden on society 😞 
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    · 19 hours ago

    " Liz Kendall, will double down on Labour’s £5bn disability benefits cuts on Wednesday, claiming she is reforming the welfare state to save it from collapse."

    So, save the system from collapse by making claimants collapse instead. Top work Liz.

    "Some of those threatening to rebel over the changes are committed Keir Starmer loyalists. The 100 backbenchers said to have signed the letter are described by MPs as broadly distinct from the 42 who signed a public statement this month calling the package “impossible to support”."

    If that's true they really could be in trouble if the Tories also vote against the cuts. This would suggest there are at least 140 or so backbenchers opposed, with some reports putting the figure as high as 170. I can't imagine this doubling down is going to win round many rebels - if anything it's only likely to antagonise even more of their own MPs.

    And what a damning indictment of a supposedly Labour government, that they are only now willing to consider a climbdown on the WFA and lifting the two child cap - things that any Labour government should be doing anyway - not because they believe in doing those things, but simply in an attempt to bribe their own MPs into voting through even worse cuts for seriously ill and disabled people. Any rebel who is made that sort of offer should tell them precisely where they can stick it.
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      · 8 hours ago
      @tintack It was planned this way. 
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