Strategies for challenging PIP no points

Thanks Gordon.

I haven’t sent in my appeal yet (it must be in by next Friday) so my aim with the submission I’m drafting is to make it enough to convince the DWP personnel who do the reconsideration.

(I really don’t want to go to tribunal if I can avoid it. I will opt for a hearing, but will probably back out if it comes to it.)

So I just don’t know whether to mention M&S and the DWP’s possible shopping fantasies, or whether it would be planting ideas in their head.

I could say I’m angry and disappointed at the partial and misleading way the nurse has reported my evidence, recording that I walk to M&S but failing to report all the qualifications (reliably/repeatedly/never before 2pm/just to the cafe – all of which I definitely told her because I just listened to the recording I made of the interview).

What do you think?

Really kicking myself at my strategic error in saying ‘M&S cafe’ instead of ‘nearest cafe to my house’.

An update. Six months after my MR was rejected, I attended my tribunal last Monday. Letter came Wednesday morning – no award, no points.

I think my next step is to request a statement of reasons for the decision; though I think I have to accept I’m not going to get an award of PIP.

There were three unexpected things about the Tribunal, which may or may not help others.

Firstly, the clerk was quite helpful telling me beforehand how the Tribunal would proceed, and said the result would not be given to me before I left but be posted out that afternoon. It was actually posted the next day and if I’d realised they would only send it 2nd class I’d have given him a 1st class stamp on the spot.

Secondly, the clerk was present in the Tribunal typing busily throughout; also there seemed to be a lot of recording equipment about, but nothing was said about it.
So I don’t know if a transcript or recording were made and if so whether I can request a copy – could I ask for these when I request the statement of reasons?

Thirdly, I was devastated by the line of questioning taken by the medic, and by his hostile/overbearing/bullying manner. He was the first to ask questions, and his opening gambit was to say my main diagnosis couldn’t be accepted because the private doctor who made the diagnosis had been struck off.

Which was a bit of a humdinger, and really threw me. All the more so because it’s not actually true! I did at least manage to point out he hadn’t been struck off, but I feel an idiot because it hadn’t occurred to me that I would be interrogated about my diagnosis and treatment (having supplied a lot of detail with my PIP 2, and understood that PIP was awarded on needs and not on diagnosis) – I’m all too aware that they are non-standard, so I wish I’d prepared an instant defence of them and of my doctor’s persecution by the GMC (which included a 9 month suspension).

I wish I’d thought of saying I wanted it noted that I found his manner intimidating, but when you are feeling bullied it’s difficult to challenge it. I also wish I’d thought of saying I wanted it noted that he’d said my doctor had been struck off, because that is seriously defamatory. Bullying is one thing but I think that crosses a line - is it possible to complain?

Anyhow, that thoroughly scattered my wits so I doubt I really did myself justice for the rest of the tribunal – as a destabilising tactic it was very successful. So be prepared.

I expected it to be an upsetting and humiliating experience, but that doesn't make it any easier to deal with.

It sounds like a thoroughly chastening experience.
It is extrremely unlikely that you will be able to get a copy of the recording.

However I think you have a good case for taking it to the higher level tribunal on a point of law which is the false evidence given by the tribunal member at the beginning of the hearing re your doctor being struck off.

Your decision letter should say whether or not you can appeal. If not you need to write to them for permission to appeal citing the lie by the tribunal member at the very beginning which set the tone for an unfair hearing, especially if you were representing yourself. unfortunately people representing themselves are at an automTic disadvantage and are less successful.

Please see here
www.gov.uk/social-security-child-support...bunal/get-a-decision

This shows how to make an upper tribunal appeal and it links to the forms required. You could try your CAB to see if they would help you.

Thanks for this. I see from the Appeals FAQ that I can request a record of proceedings as well as a statement of reasons, so I might try asking for the written and audio records and see what happens.

The doctor asked why, if I claimed my cognitive problems prevented me cooking, they didn’t affect my driving, which is fairly preposterous, and asked if I had reported my illness to DVLA – leaving me worried that he will report me to DVLA himself out of sheer malice. (Though since I didn’t get any points for cooking presumably I don’t have any cognitive problems anyhow.)

It is interesting that I got DLA LRC on the basis of the cooking test, which as far as I can see equates to 4 points under PIP – but I have not been awarded those 4 points. I made out the case for them in some detail, but no dice.

I am also worried that my ESA Support Group status – awarded on the basis that I cannot mobilise more than 50 metres, because of fatigue – is or will be threatened by the PIP decision that I have no problems walking.

I was asked about my use of social media (I know this was mentioned in another thread), but I don’t do facebook et al.

When I said that my employer had written me off because of my ill health the judge laughed. It really wasn’t a joke.

The HMCTS leaflet about appealing to the Upper Tribunal (which the B&W man recon guide helpfully links to ) says that after getting the First-tier Tribunal's reasons you have to apply to the First-tier Tribunal judge for permission to appeal.
Does this mean it goes to the actual judge who presided? I’d be pleased if it did – I feel I have a record to set straight with that woman, as well as her chum the doctor.