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Massive response to PIP vouchers Green Paper consultation

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There has been a massive response to the Modernising Support Green Paper, Stephen Timms, the DWP minister for disability has revealed.  And whilst the government is still not offering any certainty that the proposal to replace PIP cash payments with vouchers will be dropped, they do seem to be distancing themselves from the Conservative’s proposals.

Timms was answering a question on behalf of the secretary of state for Work and Pensions from Labour MP Cat Smith:

“To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, when she plans to publish her Department's response to the consultation entitled Modernising support for independent living: the health and disability green paper, published in April 2024.”

Timms replied:

“The consultation on the Modernising Support Green Paper closed on Monday 22 July. Over 16,000 responses have been received and we will review these responses.

“The proposals in this Green Paper were developed by the previous government. We will be considering our own approach to social security in due course.”

The number of responses is more than ten times higher than were given to the DWP consultation on changes to the work capability assessment, which was launched in September 2023.  That consultation received 1,348 replies.

It is likely that the vast majority of responses will have been negative in relation to most of the proposals for changes to PIP.  It is encouraging to learn that so many people took the trouble to respond and it will have left the government in no doubt about the size of the fight they will have on their hands if they try to push through any of the more controversial ideas in the Green Paper  

The form of words used by Timms “We will be considering our own approach to social security in due course.” is identical to that used by Baroness Sherlock in the House of Lords last week.

Whilst it lacks any certainty, the phrase does suggest that Labour are planning to disown most of what the Conservatives have proposed.

Benefits and Work readers, who we know responded in large numbers to the Green Paper, can congratulate themselves on having spoken out so powerfully on behalf of the many PIP claimants who found the consultation too overwhelming to reply to.

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  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Declan
    Declan · 1 months ago
    I have been claiming benefits since the age I was able to, I have very severe mental health due to past trauma and I also have learning disabilities, those who claim for no reasons should be the ones that pay not the ones that genuinely need the support. I tried working a few times before I actually claimed but I mentally couldn’t cope having intense anxiety attacks. If I was strong enough to I would do it but I’ve tried many times
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Thomas
    Thomas · 1 months ago
    I think you are spot on Pete.

    I am 58 years old, I have always worked.  I have been diagnosed with a ver6 rare condition that causes my nerves and small to medium blood vessels to narrow.  As a consequence I have rehabilitating numb feet/hands causing mobility issues.  The condition has also caused me to suffer with asthma and with nerve damage I have a dropped foot.   Walking is very slow and difficult.  I am under two Cnsultants, I am on various medications and have a biologic injection every 8 weeks and Infusions every 6 months.  There is no cure for my illness.  As a result I cannot work.  PIP is a life line.  

    I believe there are people out there abusing the system.  The Goverment have a right to target those individuals.  I know of cases of individuals who have NEVER worked and claim every benefit they can.  But genuine claimants should not b made to feel like they are scrounges.  I have paid my taxes and NI contributions all my life
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Dawn Dawset
      Dawn Dawset · 27 days ago
      @Thomas Those people who have never worked are like myself but have good reasons why we can't work just as you have good reasons why you don't work.
      Every individual is different and have had a different life, don't judge them through no fault of their own. 
      You were fortunate to work in the past but many were not. 
      Think about what you are saying here please.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      MariW
      MariW · 1 months ago
      @Thomas @Thomas Of course there are “cases of individuals who have NEVER worked and claim every benefit they can.” Some PIP claimants are born with major, lifelong disabilities and are among the most vulnerable members of society. PIP is not a reward for NI contributions or income tax paid. 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Pete
    Pete · 1 months ago
    I think it's likely something will come out of this consultation but it'll probably be that PIP will become harder to claim. I'll be honest, I think this is fair as people are claiming it without a formal diagnosis, normally anxiety and depression.

    Maybe there could be some lower rate whilst people wait to see consultants etc. For the record I have both a serious physical condition and various mental health conditions I've been diagnosed with by consultants over the years. But the thing is, when I first began to suffer mental health problems years ago (suspected schizophrenia) I didn't claim DLA because it wasn't affecting me in that way. Maybe I did need it, I dunno but did end up claiming DLA ten years later. It just feels like some people are claiming PIP just because they can rather than whether they actually need it and this is perhaps partly what is driving the surge in claims.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Dawn Dawset
      Dawn Dawset · 27 days ago
      @Hannah B Why do you say that? 
      You need to state your reasons why.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Hannah B
      Hannah B · 1 months ago
      @Pete I think they are going to make pip available to people with physical disabilities only. 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      lesley
      lesley · 1 months ago
      @Pete
      Thank you Pete. Kind of you to acknowledge.
       I also have had a retinal thrombosis in left eye.  So only have peripheral vision and no central vision in that left eye.  Other eye okay.
      Am now reluctant to disclose on any forms now (other than for DWP) that I have a mental health condiition.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Pete
      Pete · 1 months ago
      @lesley I feel for you as I also have an eye condition which causes tearing of the epithelial layer on my eyes. Was in a load of pain though when I turned up at A&E and they could see the cysts under magnification. I can't imagine what they've had said if the cysts weren't there. Incidentally the condition is idiopathic, there's no explanation as to what is causing it. I think it could be my liver but sadly the more likely I suggest that, the less seriously I'll prob be taken.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      lesley
      lesley · 1 months ago
      @Pete
      I agree Pete.
      Once I had a piece of grit or something in my eye.  I went to A&E for help because it was so painful.
      I disclosed on a form that I had a mental health illness.
      The doctor who examined me could not find anything,(the piece of grit or whatever it was in my eye had probably cleared by itself). The A&E doctor then said "People with mental health problems always think things are a lot worse than they really are"
      I put in a complaint about that doctor and reported him to the Patient Advocacy Liaison Service.
      I turned out about a month later when I was examined by an opthalmologist at my local opticians that I had "dry eye syndrome" which can be extremely painful.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Dods
    Dods · 1 months ago
    I highly doubt vouchers will happen - it’s just too much of a bureaucratic nightmare and will end up costing money. It will engender a black market and there will be marches full of the wheelchair-bound and the elderly. Not a good look, even if this govt is heartless and no better than the last. There’s a good case for offering therapy and easier access to such for those who want it. Everything else is too blatantly cruel and/or infeasible. I will never vote Labour again. 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Matt
      Matt · 13 days ago
      @Dods The fact there trying to end us says it all it's disgusting and they know for a fact that no one wants this at all but there hellbent on starving and un-aliveing  the disabled it seems 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Tony E
      Tony E · 1 months ago
      @Dods Not all therapy is created equal. "Standard" talking therapy, which the government are quoting, are for what is considered "safer" and less complex condititons. More specialised treatments are next to impossible to access without going private. Without the means to pay for this treatment would leave many of us in extremely dangerous positions.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    cc
    cc · 1 months ago
    I still think there was never an intention to use vouchers, I think the real plan was making it much harder to qualify for PIP, the proposal e.g. requires a clinical diagnosis, as well as various adjustments to the descriptors.

    But everyone only seems to be only talking about the vouchers, which if I am right means the distraction is working,
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Kevin9320
      Kevin9320 · 1 months ago
      @cc I agree with CC. The vouchers idea is so outrageously silly and it simply masks the real intention to introduce something less diabolical, which people will grudgingly accept because it isn't as bad as they thought it would be. 

      Just my opinion, but I believe means-testing PIP would be too controversial and the idea would be met with strong opposition. 

      By far the most likely change, and I offer no opinion on this, could be stricter assessment criteria, with a view to reducing the number claiming for mental health issues particularly, but including anyone else claiming as well. This has been hinted at several times recently, although the precise nature of any stricter criteria is obviously a matter of conjecture. We will have to sit tight until they start leaking details ahead of the actual announcements.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Karen106
    Karen106 · 1 months ago
    I filled in the response form. I stated what if treatment I needed, such as my osteopath didn’t take the vouchers.
    Plus what if this was a tag to check where you were spending money?
    You may think buying a coffee out for your friend is a inconsiderate use of money. Not if you have been in bed all week with a flare up and seen no one. Mental health benefits are much needed.
    Plus sometimes you just need to pay the bills.
    I did indicate a certain number of staff would need to be employed for this and to deal with queries.
    We are sick, not on a thoughtless spending spree. We appreciate the money we get, and we would not choose this. A full time job would be easier, than a condition 24/7.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Brian Marriott
    Brian Marriott · 1 months ago
    I rely on my pip for my taxi from hospitals and home and also to help with every day living 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Emma
    Emma · 1 months ago
    I rely on PIP to live and pay my bills, I have many unseen illnesses and I am have been medically retired due to them.
    If PIP is taken away and replaced by voucher I won’t be able to pay my rent or bills. I did fill the response form in even tho a lot of the questions didn’t make sense to me I just answered them however I wanted. 
    Being medically retired I am now unable to work which sucks. 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Perceptive
    Perceptive · 1 months ago
    Equal shares of misery for all would not benefit anyone and would eventually lead to the complete end of PIP and DLA etc. as, eventually, all disabled benefits would be merged with universal credit if disabled benefits were means tested.

    Those who seek financial improvement for disabled people on low income should press for the existing means tested benefits to be improved for all on low income as everyone on low income, irrespective of disability should receive a fair income.

    Only silly people would consider that the means testing of existing disability benefits such as PIP or DLA was a good idea as it would not benefit anyone.

    Those who already qualify for existing means tested benefits would not gain a penny by those who have worked and carefully saved lossing out because some people have a Green Eyed Prospective. - Our loss would not be their gain.

    Bringing those, without savings/or on low incomes up, (via improved UC), would be fair but under the present economic circumstances that will not happen soon.

    PIP and DLA is only available to disabled people because disabled people have additional costs, additional needs and restrictions caused by their disabilities and these needs and cost and needs are the same irrespective of income. - It is and it should remain purely based on disability and should be paid in the same amounts in the same way to all who are disabled. 

    Let us not place unnecessary divisions between us were none should exist. 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      boris1
      boris1 · 1 months ago
      @Edwards I agree with you.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Edwards
      Edwards · 1 months ago
      @boris1 It simply wouldn't work,how long are your savings going to last you? 16k if you've been disqualified from claiming anything won't last 2 minutes, many have worked hard for their savings or their partner has,why should someone who hasn't squandered their money be penalised?and its a massive disincentive to even try work, why would you when the end result would be a total loss of your pip?? if they do thus they are absolutely nuts In thinking people will want to work because they won't 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Edwards
      Edwards · 1 months ago
      @Perceptive What about people claiming through contributions,my esa has always been contributions based because my oh worked,he doesn't work now he had to give it up to care for me and is now claiming carers allowance, he took a pension lump sum to enable us to do this,I don't claim income based benefits as the pension lump sum disqualifies us,also not everyone wants to swap their cont based esa for uc and then losing their disability payments,having  to be assessed again and get put in the wrong group with work searches attached which I can't do ,I wish,as we all do that we were not disabled and Free to work and earn our own money without all these threats hanging over us,life would certainly be a whole lot better if we were lucky enough to be fit and healthy 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      boris1
      boris1 · 1 months ago
      @Perceptive @perceptive I agree.  Those who say it should be made means tested are causing division within the disabled community and  pitting us against one another. We should be standing in solidarity, after all we all have the extra costs that disability incurs and frankly its selfish and thoughtless of those who appear to lack compassion

      I guess as long as it doesn't effect them thats all that seems to matter.
      I find it astonishing.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    val
    val · 1 months ago
    so if they mean test pip does that mean we will be able to get the benefits of other means tested people like free dental treatment free prescriptions free eye tests cost of living payment and winter fuel payment too ???
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      boris1
      boris1 · 1 months ago
      @val They have always denied extra help to those of us on non means tested benefits.
      We never got any of the cost of living payments or winter fuel allowance.
      I don't get and rent support or council tax support.
      I always had to pay for my nhs prescriptions. 
      They say it pays to work yet we get penalised by being denied the extra money those on means tested benefits get.
      The whole system is stacked against people like me and its grossly unfair.
      I worked for years and paid tax and national insurance. 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      val
      val · 1 months ago
      @boris1 and if they did not extend the extra help is that not discrimination against the disabled ? and is it not against the law to discriminate disabled people ??
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      boris1
      boris1 · 1 months ago
      @val @val Wouldn't that be nice if we did.
      Some of us have been penalised by the benefits system and had to pay our own prescription charges, rent, council tax etc.
      The whole system is totally unfair.  
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Anon
      Anon · 1 months ago
      @val Good point, I suppose that would be the case. 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      A
      A · 1 months ago
      @val All the stuff you've listed are also means tested.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    A
    A · 1 months ago
    Everybody on this thread is only talking about vouchers for PIP, when in reality the DWP's focus is more on finding ways to force as many claimants as possible into work and disallowing PIP for anyone who's working. I think PIP should be made means tested and disallowed to anyone who's working. 

    I don't think it's unfair to refuse PIP to people who are working. Why Should someone who's receiving a monthly salary get PIP? If they can manage working, they should as well be able to manage their daily living needs.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Pamela
      Pamela · 10 days ago
      @lori Exactly.  Disabled people are some of the lowest paid.  Disability benefits are universal for a reason - because everyone living with significant disability has extra costs, whether they work or not. It levels the playing field.  Judging by some of the comments here I think the government’s tight lipped strategy on what they do intend for disability benefits is working.  We’re focused on the wrong thing, and some here who don’t work are turning on those who do and saying disability benefits shouldn’t be paid in work.  So what do you do if you’re low paid and don’t qualify for any other benefits ?  What do you do if your only means of getting to and from work is using a motability car provided by PIP mobility allowance ? Critical thinking needed here.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Pamela
      Pamela · 10 days ago
      @A Ridiculous suggestion.  The point of PIP and other disability benefits is to level up with the cost of living with a disability.  Whether you can work or not is irrelevant, it still costs. And I don’t know anyone who can make ends meet on PIP alone - they are all either on different sickness benefits or have small occupational pensions having worked.  What you’re suggesting also means that those who use a motability car to get to and from work would lose PIP and lose the car  - so would be unable to work. 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Concerned parent
      Concerned parent · 1 months ago
      @Matt My daughter lives in supported living she gets 37hrs care cost a week (even though she's 24/7) the council take all of her pip money towards care costs plus some 500 + a month..we are in our late 70s and have to subsidies her income otherwise she would have no money for leisure etc..its a disgrace what these governments and councils have done.so yes our daughter has been disabled from birth and will never get any better.. so my question is do we pay the council with vouchers???
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Emma
      Emma · 1 months ago
      @Matt Totally agree!
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      lori
      lori · 1 months ago
      @A A monthly salary doesn't always cover your basic living costs, there's a myth that if you work you are better off than those on benefits, you're not unless you have a high paid job or work 16 hours a week and receive benefits
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    geoff and dionne
    geoff and dionne · 1 months ago
    right! have u seen soylent green? all disabled r to be turned into food...or okayed for alien abduction or organ harvested and remember its only fair u pay uk society for ur drain on uk funds. i myself have been earmarked as food for morlocks, a privilege as a decorated ex raf war veteran pmsl
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Angry citizen
    Angry citizen · 1 months ago
    Aren’t the conservatives still in power but with a different colour code? There definitely not a working class party. We have a dictatorship in power, that has taken away the people’s freedom of speech. 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Rik
    Rik · 1 months ago
    Means testing PIP would mean it being counted towards the benefit cap. They aren’t going to increase the benefit cap, so can’t see PIP going that route. More likely is their new WCA will be much stricter, making it much harder to qualify for UC (LCWRA) & PIP.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Brian Marriott
    Brian Marriott · 1 months ago
    There will be no update till September or October I’m sick of other Google pages coming up with stuff like this one https://www.express.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/1930924/dwp-pip-update-scrap-9583-payments-vouchers/amp
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Listen up
    Listen up · 1 months ago
    Hi all don’t read the comments about pip with vouchers yet wait till anyone is back in September then budget October just wait all you have to do is wait and see
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Jon
    Jon · 1 months ago
    If I lose pip I can manage just on ESA have lost my pip in the past
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      mrfibro
      mrfibro · 1 months ago
      @Jon I can't manage on ESA at all.  PIP is vital to me staying alive.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    axab43
    axab43 · 1 months ago
    Thank you for this mostly positive report.  I no longer read the comments now as part of my mental health issues is severe anxiety and I find all the scare mongering/worst case scenario comments really upsetting.   Can anyone who has a positive/factual frame of mind tell me if there was going to be any change in PIP, how long it would take to go through parliament?  There are a number of big cash spend outs, ie a new sofa, I have been meaning to do for a long time but keep putting off (anxiety related.)  If PIP is going to be withdrawn, (which I doubt but just in case) I would like to know how long I have before such measures could go through legislation? 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      cvd72
      cvd72 · 1 months ago
      @mrfibro I don't belive anything in that comment to be true, obviously your'e trying to create negative comments and anger towards those claiming PIP by saying you can't buy so called expensive items. Most people on PIP have to claim it for extra costs with daily living and are not out spending it on how you say, expensive wardrobes and mattresses. Please get your facts right first instead of creating more division towards disabled and sick people, i get your'e entitled to your opinion but only if it's based on truth and not making genuinely sick or disabled people feel even worse about themselves as they already do, have a bit of compassion please.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Taking the pip
      Taking the pip · 1 months ago
      @axab43 Big cash spend outs. pip going to be withdrawn ,
      maybe not withdrawn for all, but most certainly reduced, 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Je
      Je · 1 months ago
      @axab43 Government now that most of people receiving PIP do NOT use It for extra Payment if NOT for everyday essentials because they Payment they gives in total are too low. So I do not really think this IS going to happen. I think PIP Will continue being in cash. Do NOT be stress , just relax. 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      mrfibro
      mrfibro · 1 months ago
      @axab43 I too am extremely anxious and worried over this voucher lark.  As I wanted to buy some nice sliding wardrobes for the bedrooms.  And also to buy those expensive orthopedic beds, and mattresses.

      So now planning ahead has been put on hold.


    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      axab43
      axab43 · 1 months ago
      @Jdc Thank you.  I guess time will tell.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Scrounger
    Scrounger · 1 months ago
    What has happened to the Chance to Work Guarantee and are reassessments still turned off? 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Dawn
      Dawn · 1 months ago
      @Scrounger Yes that's what I want to know. Currently disabled people are too afraid to attempt work for fear of it triggering a re-assessment, in case it doesn't work out. What's more, the gvt need to accept that if a disabled person is capable of any work, it is also acceptable for them to work part-time if that's all they can manage, rather than saying they need to work full-time and threatening to have their universal credit completely taken away. 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Robin Hood
    Robin Hood · 1 months ago
    Dear all, this is tough times indeed- and Winter Payments have been Hit,
    What next, since 1972 anybody on benefits received a Christmas Bonus from the government and since then we have had Labour, Conservatives and Liberals in power and the Christmas Bonus of £10 has NEVER increased since it was introduced in 1972.
    £10 Christmas Bonus since 1972 has always been the same WHY?, now we are in 2024 fifty two years (52yrs) has passed and £10 in today’s value is worth £165.36p (we have been robbed).
    This country should DEMAND from the present Government that it’s time to recognise the real cost of living for the needed of today’s society period.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Pamela
      Pamela · 10 days ago
      @Pete There are also a lot of pensioners living abroad in countries where there is no option to claim pension credit so they still qualify for the WFP. That loophole should be closed if they’re going to be fair to all.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Pete
      Pete · 1 months ago
      @Robin Hood It's absolutely right that winter fuel payments be means tested as long as this isn't more costly in the long run.

      I honestly do not see the issue in asking wealthy pensioners to pay for it. It's not like it's a huge amount of money. Remember, many of us have already lost our warm home discount, regardless of how low our income is. This is a lot fairer in comparison.

      Remember there's a lot of pensioners abroad who don't get it or pension credit when they would be eligble for it here.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      lesley
      lesley · 1 months ago
      @TheDogmother Thank you TheDogmother. Thank you for your good wishes. I hope the move to UC goes well. I live in a council flat and am on housing benefit.  I note that the pension credit and housing benefit merger to housing credit, which was planned for 2028/9 is now being brought forward, so that's worrying me! Keep fighting!
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      T
      T · 1 months ago
      @TheDogmother I think it has to be a mistake because I know other people have received it. I'm like you and can't call them, I'd rather leave it and miss out than speak to them. Really don't trust DWP and I'd worry too much that they would do something if I got somebody to call them to enquire. 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      TheDogmother
      TheDogmother · 1 months ago
      @Kiki @Kiki most peculiar. unless i phone them and ask directly i guess i will never know why.
      But im terrible on the phone and panic. Takecare  X

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