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Massive response to PIP vouchers Green Paper consultation

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There has been a massive response to the Modernising Support Green Paper, Stephen Timms, the DWP minister for disability has revealed.  And whilst the government is still not offering any certainty that the proposal to replace PIP cash payments with vouchers will be dropped, they do seem to be distancing themselves from the Conservative’s proposals.

Timms was answering a question on behalf of the secretary of state for Work and Pensions from Labour MP Cat Smith:

“To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, when she plans to publish her Department's response to the consultation entitled Modernising support for independent living: the health and disability green paper, published in April 2024.”

Timms replied:

“The consultation on the Modernising Support Green Paper closed on Monday 22 July. Over 16,000 responses have been received and we will review these responses.

“The proposals in this Green Paper were developed by the previous government. We will be considering our own approach to social security in due course.”

The number of responses is more than ten times higher than were given to the DWP consultation on changes to the work capability assessment, which was launched in September 2023.  That consultation received 1,348 replies.

It is likely that the vast majority of responses will have been negative in relation to most of the proposals for changes to PIP.  It is encouraging to learn that so many people took the trouble to respond and it will have left the government in no doubt about the size of the fight they will have on their hands if they try to push through any of the more controversial ideas in the Green Paper  

The form of words used by Timms “We will be considering our own approach to social security in due course.” is identical to that used by Baroness Sherlock in the House of Lords last week.

Whilst it lacks any certainty, the phrase does suggest that Labour are planning to disown most of what the Conservatives have proposed.

Benefits and Work readers, who we know responded in large numbers to the Green Paper, can congratulate themselves on having spoken out so powerfully on behalf of the many PIP claimants who found the consultation too overwhelming to reply to.

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  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Matt
    Matt · 1 months ago
    From a previous thread, thought this would be better entered here:

    As many readers will no doubt have seen on the news, Reeves has started to wield the axe: means testing for the winter fuel allowance; abolition of the social care cap. The Budget is set for 30th October. She has already stated that there will be 'difficult decisions' on spending and welfare. I would suspect Kendall's White Paper on welfare reform will have been published by then.

    I have said in a number of occasions and I'll reiterate it now: PIP as we have become used to is finished. What will replace it is anyone's guess, but restrictions on eligibility, means testing, the benefit being taxed, and conditionality being attached to receiving PIP are more than likely.

    I would welcome any constructive thoughts on how disabled people can mitigate a further cut in their living standards. I, for one, will have to seek, if possible, better paid employment
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Brian Marriott
    Brian Marriott · 1 months ago
    Let’s all hope that pip stays money as a voucher can not work for mobility cars or repair 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Emily
    Emily · 1 months ago
    It is disappointing it wasn’t more but given the election I guess wasn’t seen as urgent any more. Those that say will cancel PIP like mobility. It will save no money because let say scoop up all mobility cars. Ok who’s going get everyone to medical appointments? Where is the money for hospital transport? How are 100,000s children going to get to school? How are people going to get to work? Unless it will be you are not entitled to leave the house unless you also work and have children. 


  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    MariW
    MariW · 1 months ago
    After Labour means-tested the Winter Fuel Payment, a means-tested PIP frightens me as much, if not more, that the voucher scenario. 

    I would have no income. 

    Straight away, I would have to cease all support. I would be housebound without help because my savings would not last long. 

    If they means-test PIP, why stop there? What about AA? A fairer way would be to make income from these benefits taxable.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Hannah B
      Hannah B · 1 months ago
      @MariW The thing is only 17% of pip claiments work or have savings so means testing wouldn't save that much money. And don't they want disabled people in work anyway? 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Perceptive
    Perceptive · 1 months ago
    The government will be more than happy to divide disabled people with similar disabilities into different groups. (Possibly based on those who have worked for many years and had built up savings and those who were not ever able to work).

    We are all disabled and PIP is to help us to cope with our disability, (irrespective of our means), as being disabled is very costly and prevents us from earning as we once did.

    Conversely Universal Credit, (which is already means tested), is the way to pay people without savings more income.

    It is very good news that the opinions of Stephen Timms now indicate the that the ridiculous voucher idea is a now a none starter.

    The bad news is the that Instead of all of us being happy about this apparent success regarding vouchers a large number of Means Tested posts indicate that some of our number post seems to indicate that some of our number now keep raising the spectre of Means Testing of PIP which is ridiculous.

    PIP should not be means tested and let us not raise that as an option.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Mark
    Mark · 1 months ago
    Hopefully Labour will drop the cruel Tory green paper. 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Robin Hood
    Robin Hood · 1 months ago
    Calling all PIP claimants if vouchers came about Don’t and I mean Don’t be concerned WHY , because vouchers will be quite easily forged and which ever government makes it happen will lose millions more in forgery vouchers and it would be a scandal to this country.
    Making criminals richer….so think this really hard who ever is in power!!
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Diceman24
    Diceman24 · 1 months ago
    Just seen a article government looking at that people won’t get lcwra on top of universal credit  if you don’t receive pip benefit how would that work 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Brian Marriott
      Brian Marriott · 1 months ago
      @Nightcity Tbh I don’t think it will happen anyway I think they tried it last year? 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      John
      John · 1 months ago
      @Nightcity Absolutely clickbait websites 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      A
      A · 1 months ago
      @Nightcity Everyone should read your comment and stop googling and reading anything else.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      lesley
      lesley · 1 months ago
      @Nightcity Thanks Nightcity. Sensible response! Nothing has changed yet!
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      JJ
      JJ · 1 months ago
      @Diceman24 Pip is not an unemployment benefit, it's a catch all benefit for people with physical and or mental disabilities/impairments. There are people who receive PIP who work.


  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    shawn
    shawn · 1 months ago
    I think pip will become means tested like the winter allowance for pensioners, 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      shawn
      shawn · 1 months ago
      @Paula Yes but they can easily remove that if they want to, 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Rik
      Rik · 1 months ago
      @shawn If that were to happy, it would then count towards the benefit cap.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Luna
      Luna · 1 months ago
      @shawn I think you right about mean testing 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Paula
      Paula · 1 months ago
      @shawn That would absolutely end PIP as a support to disabled people. It's a levelling up benefit because EVERy disabled person is financially disadvantaged, no matter what their income, by disability. 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Citizen
    Citizen · 1 months ago
    Lol, if they are going after pensioners this early then they will hammer the disabled, it is of course our fault(disabled folks) that the economy is in such a bad state just like back in 2008 when fraudulent benefit claims caused the sub prime market crisis, Labour hate disabled people just as much as the Tories and they will show it buy lowering our standard of living even further that they have before, this is a warning shot of just how nasty they really are.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Citizen
      Citizen · 1 months ago
      @Neal Lol, you remember how many people opposed the Iraqi war?

      I have been in the system for 15 plus years and have encountered liar after liar, when complaining about the liars the liars got to investigate themselves and find themselves to not be at fault.

      The political classes are not elected they are selected, I knew this as a child so as an adult the fallacy that voting will make a blind bit of difference is quite honestly laughable, voter have zero power and if it made even a slight bit of difference you would simply not be allowed to do it, the whole stinking pile of excrement is exactly what it smells like it is. 

      As for disabled people, you know the ones that have been battered and gaslighted by the DWP/ATOS/MAXIMUS/CRAPITA for at least the last 15 years have absolutely no chance of uniting and putting pressure on those in power, we have no voice, we have no choice, in fact if any, even able bodied people had any choice we would not be seeing mass immigration, we would not be giving away billions on foreign aid and funding programs that encourage children with gender dysphoria to mutilate themselves, no of these hot political potatoes are a choice that can be un-chosen by voting.

      The political classes do not fear anything, they are protected and they damn well know it, I am sorry but the only thing we really have is the illusion of choice, the choice of left or right, that is not a choice.

      You see, there is only one conclusion to come to when the government treats it's most vulnerable(disabled people) the way it has done for the last 15 years is that it is not just the DWP that are liars but that they are all liars, you can't have just a small minority that can get away with breaking the law in a fair and just system, if one org can do it with absolutely no consequence then it means that the whole system is corrupt to the core, we live in a top down society and the top is rotten to the core and thus so are it's subsidiaries.

      Sorry for the rant, I am just a wee bit bitter, the damage done by years of gaslighting and lies have done an immense amount of irreparable damage to the very core of my being, I know that I am not alone, I know that all of us that has scored nil pois in a fixed assessment only to get it overturned on appeal over and over again feel exactly the same as I do.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Grace Larder
      Grace Larder · 1 months ago
      @Neal Absolutely they’ll go after us.  They’re already going after the education system which is about to go into utter disarray.  For anyone who thinks taxing private school fees is a positive idea, look at Greece 2015. Disaster for all.  They seem to want to prove points and go after the most vulnerable in society
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Neal
      Neal · 1 months ago
      @Citizen Both the labour and the conservative  fear the elections, more than three million disabled people   and other millions of retired people  in the voting balance will create a big gap against or for this or that. Therefore, the disabled and retiree should not be satisfied with talking and complaining, this is good, but it is better for everyone concerned, especially those with low incomes, to pressure against these truly unjust measures against us. This requires working together and firmly showing our rejection of these measures. Pensioners and disabled people by the millions, all of them adults can vote. Believe me, the gvt will back down, if I do not say about everything, but about the most important points.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    diceman24
    diceman24 · 1 months ago
    seems after all there might b a little silver lining with changing pip to vouchers after all motorablilty cars are a massive charity and a massive business for the government even if they did bring in voucher scheme surely the gove and motorablilty charity would take vouchers if you get pip high rate this would be easy to set up 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Maria Nelson
      Maria Nelson · 1 months ago
      @Paula I’m in that situation. I live in a village with 1 bus route that often is late and no shows. I get stressed about appointments and I’m living in fear of sanctions coming from the bus situation also the walk to the job centre is quite long. 6.8miles from my home 1 way. I get stressed about being late so I get taxis to the appointments then use my bus pass to get back, taxis range between £18-£23 one way. I don’t get mobility because I can walk but I walk on the flat ok just not hills and loads of stairs. Social services is helping me re interviewing PAs and I’m paying taxis whenever an interview happens. I’m trying to take the direct payment route but I need warm as I get frustrated a lot. I use my pip to cover those and made a ninja kitchen to put everything bench height. My money goes on disability an occasional treat I use some extra electric for a bath seat. Already but shouldn’t disabled people be able to afford a reasonable quality of life. It’s not our fault for these disabilities. I don’t look disabled because I stim and I look younger than my age as I rarely smoke or drink
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Anon
      Anon · 1 months ago
      @diceman24 I don't think the motability scheme as pip is paid directly to the dealership and not into the claimants bank. However, I think the criteria for getting a car will be tightened and I think it will probably be harder to get one for mental health reasons, except in the most severe of cases.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      mrfibro
      mrfibro · 1 months ago
      @diceman24 Hows it going to work for claimants receiving PIP high rate on daily living & low rate mobility.  They are not on the motorability scheme, most reply on family, friends, taxis to get them around.

      Guess they will all end up never being able to leave their homes because vouchers restrict them.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Paula
      Paula · 1 months ago
      @diceman24 The mobility component of PIP isn't just about vehicles. Many disabled people can't drive but are unable to manage even familiar journeys on their own on foot. They are much bigger users of taxis and public transport. 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Jasmine19
      Jasmine19 · 1 months ago
      @diceman24 What if they means test PIP.  Many disabled workers will be hit and that will impact on motorbility and mobility businesses.  Many disabled workers won’t be able to continue to work.   

      What if you have a partner in full time work or a small medical retirement pension.   That would cause a lot of poverty 


  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Neal
    Neal · 1 months ago
    It is known that when the Conservative Party is in power, it will protect the rich and pluck the feathers of poor people. But I cannot understand that the Labour Party, which is supposed to protect the poor society, will also, when it comes to power, pluck the feathers of the poor class, if they have any feathers left.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    diceman24
    diceman24 · 1 months ago
    they have only 16000  responses and 3.6 million claiming pip benefit where is everyone on this serious matter 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      lori
      lori · 1 months ago
      @diceman24 Probably sunning themselves on holiday, taking a well deserved break from their aids, and gurning at the prospect of the looming vouchers
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      DizzyDaisyMat
      DizzyDaisyMat · 1 months ago
      @diceman24 For those who suffer with mental health issues it can often be very difficult to put into words how such changes would affect them.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    (No) hope
    (No) hope · 1 months ago
    I’ve just watched hunt and reeves slugging it out in parliament.   Is this what it has come to? And then they will claim that they know best for us. Patronising bstards. Who knows if there is even a financial black hole, or just part of a contrived agenda to inflict future financial pain on everyone, everyone except them that is
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      mrfibro
      mrfibro · 1 months ago
      @(No) hope There was no blackhole when tories were in power.  Labours now saying different.  The blackhole in the economy obviously seems in labour mind to be us.  So their ulternative is to make us more poorer.

      Which will put immense pressure onto the already collapsed NHS, costing more money.  And if that blackhole get filled in. Then labour will find an even bigger blackhole that needs filling in.


  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Brian Marriott
    Brian Marriott · 1 months ago
    Fingers crossed pip payments continue and not voucher as voucher won’t work  
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Damion
    Damion · 1 months ago
    I think the negative comments have snowballed on this site.This green paper was put there to cause trouble as they knew (tories)knew they wouldn’t be around to implement it.But a few people put panicky and before you know it it’s a stampede .The truth is nobody knows what will happen, We need to deal with it when we find out,and if we need to fight we will together.whatever we all have difficulties with physically and mental health problems.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    (No) hope
    (No) hope · 1 months ago
    16000 responses.. not sure if I should be joyful about this or ask where was everybody?. I thought there were millions of us?Is this a powerful enough response? I have my doubts 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    lesley
    lesley · 1 months ago
    "In the winter of 2011-12, the benefit cost the UK Government £2,100,000,000 and was paid out to 12,700,000 people. It was criticised by Paul Burston (former care services minister) in 2013 for its lack of targeting, Burstow saying that "80% of older people do not require (the benefit)" and proposing that it be only given to pensioners on pension credit which he said would save £1.5 bn a year.  He suggested tht the savings be used to help implement the finding of the Dilnot Commission into social care.  However, in 2013 about 1 million of 3 million eligible people did not claim pension credit"
    From "Winter Fuel Payment" Wikipedia

    So nothing new here.  There are still lots of eligible pensioners for pension credit who do not claim. 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Sean
    Sean · 1 months ago
    They'll just do it anyway and blame the last lot.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Brian Marriott
    Brian Marriott · 1 months ago
    Keep pip as money only 

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