There has been a massive response to the Modernising Support Green Paper, Stephen Timms, the DWP minister for disability has revealed.  And whilst the government is still not offering any certainty that the proposal to replace PIP cash payments with vouchers will be dropped, they do seem to be distancing themselves from the Conservative’s proposals.

Timms was answering a question on behalf of the secretary of state for Work and Pensions from Labour MP Cat Smith:

“To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, when she plans to publish her Department's response to the consultation entitled Modernising support for independent living: the health and disability green paper, published in April 2024.”

Timms replied:

“The consultation on the Modernising Support Green Paper closed on Monday 22 July. Over 16,000 responses have been received and we will review these responses.

“The proposals in this Green Paper were developed by the previous government. We will be considering our own approach to social security in due course.”

The number of responses is more than ten times higher than were given to the DWP consultation on changes to the work capability assessment, which was launched in September 2023.  That consultation received 1,348 replies.

It is likely that the vast majority of responses will have been negative in relation to most of the proposals for changes to PIP.  It is encouraging to learn that so many people took the trouble to respond and it will have left the government in no doubt about the size of the fight they will have on their hands if they try to push through any of the more controversial ideas in the Green Paper  

The form of words used by Timms “We will be considering our own approach to social security in due course.” is identical to that used by Baroness Sherlock in the House of Lords last week.

Whilst it lacks any certainty, the phrase does suggest that Labour are planning to disown most of what the Conservatives have proposed.

Benefits and Work readers, who we know responded in large numbers to the Green Paper, can congratulate themselves on having spoken out so powerfully on behalf of the many PIP claimants who found the consultation too overwhelming to reply to.

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    (No) hope · 1 months ago
    There is a real disconnect between mp’s and the public at large who I thought they were elected to serve. And a large amount of arrogance and disrespect towards the very people that elected them, and a do as I say, not as I do attitude. Please please please e Mail your mp about your pip angst, and also other issues like the winter fuel payments, let’s have way more response than the 16000 to the green paper;leave them in no doubt how we feel, and how we will be affected.
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      Pamela · 10 days ago
      @Henry I also think they made some of the questions deliberately ambiguous so they could claim that people had agreed with many of the proposals, when in fact they hadn’t.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      HIMO · 1 months ago
      @Yorry
      I am sorry if this sounds harsh but why would you give up on something that could potentially affect you so greatly?

      Yes the forms were tough but that's why there was a guide on here that you could copy and paste the answers from.

      We all better hope that the responses that were received were enough!!

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      (No) hope · 1 months ago
      @Henry Yes you are right, the form was lengthy, confusing and some questions worded in such a way that  you could have found yourself agreeing with at least some of what they proposed without careful thought. I can see why some must have given up or not bothered. That’s what they wanted. But please, without wishing to sound like a stuck record, register your discontent with your mp, voice concerns over what you’ve heard and read, let them know it stinks and how going after the most vulnerable really is low and not why they were voted for. Give them something to think about during their long summer recess. Let’s get louder still.
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      Yorry · 1 months ago
      @Henry I attempted twice to fill the form and eventually I gave up. The questions didn't make sense and I felt the answers were never going to be in favour of the current system.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Henry · 1 months ago
      @(No) hope They made the questions very difficult on purpose. A lot of people couldn't possibly get through it, which is why the count is so low imo.
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    Robin Hood · 1 months ago
    The basic annual salary of a Member of Parliament (MP) in the House of Commons is £91,346, plus expenses, from April 2024. In addition, MPs are able to claim allowances NOT vouchers so they expect disabled people to start receiving vouchers instead of cash why can’t the MP’s start to use vouchers to cover the costs of running an office and employing staff, and maintaining a constituency residence or a residence in London and if they think it works so, Why not MP’s start using vouchers to prove that it works instead using their expenses and allowances payed by Tax Payers.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    HIMO · 1 months ago
    Hi Everyone, there is a petition to save the winter fuel payment. Please if you hate what is happening, sign it. You don't have to give money, you can skip that bit. They are targeting the old then it will be the sick.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    M · 1 months ago
    Folks when emailing your MPs please remember to inform them that Means testing of PIP was opposed by Labour while in opposition 

    Get emailing 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      lesley · 1 months ago
      @Jen
      Remember Tony Blair's "New Deal"
      "The workless classes"
      New Deal for the Disabled targeted those with disabilities in receipt of Incapacity and similar benefits. £200 million was budgeted for the program up to 2002 (Peck, “Workfare” 304-305). This was superseded by the 'Work Capability Assessment', introduced by the Brown government in 2008, and administered by Atos Healthcare.

      • New Deal 50+ targeted those aged 50 and older.
      Did anyone watch the documentary "Tish"  on BBC 4? Says it all. 57 when she died of a brain aneurysm and was still have to go to sign on!  Dying in hospital, and denied any help from the DWP.

      Single mums with home responsibilites too!

      Sound familiar?

      They will be digging up corpses next and making them go to work.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Jen · 1 months ago
      @M Tony Blair’s government looked into means testing disability benefits!
      All governments will do what they think they can get away with!
      The narrative on people with disabilities is awful, we’re all just lazy!
      And pensioners are all rich!
      Divisive tactics that appear to be working!
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      lesley · 1 months ago
      @M
      Just seen on the news that my MP is under investigation by Parliament’s standards watchdog after allegedly failing to declare income from a London rental flat for more than a year.  They work for us!!!!!???? L.o.l.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    tinytim · 1 months ago
    Regarding winter fuel payments it is stated that people on pension credit and or other means tested benefit which I found out that old legacy benefit which is means tested is income support and housing benefit so we should in theory still be eligible I have contacted my mp and he said he will find out.As many I get a small pension on ton of new state pension which does not entitle me to pension credit and with tax I am paying seems so unfair as I am no way rich but am disabled as well like many. 
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      Bud · 1 months ago
      @tinytim tinytim

      Here’s a full list of benefits that are not expected to make claimants eligible for Winter Fuel Payments.
      Every benefit that will no longer be eligible for Winter Fuel Payments
      According to the Chancellor’s new plan, only those claiming Pension Credit or some means-tested benefits will definitely be eligible for Winter Fuel Payments.
      This means pensioners claiming the following benefits will not be eligible this winter:
      Attendance Allowance
      Bereavement Support Payment
      Carer's Allowance
      Disability Living Allowance
      New style Employment and Support Allowance
      Personal Independence Payment (PIP)
      State Pension
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    MJ · 1 months ago
    Labour announcing so suddenly that they are reducing Winter Payments to only those pensioners on Pension Credit speaks volumes. My mum on a State Pension and a very small private pension loses out. She can't believe that the Labour Party has done this. I can't help but think this is only the beginning. 

    Yet Public workers will get an above inflation price rise that Sky says will cost 10 billion. Junior Doctors 22% increase about a billion. Also 28 billion a year on Green projects. That money has to come from somewhere. Yes I'm doom and gloom at the moment for our prospects, yet only being realistic. Those with rose tinted glasses can vote me down; they will never admit they were wrong. I however hope I'm wrong and will say so if I am; please let me be wrong, but it seems likely we are in for a bumpy ride at best.
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      mrfibro · 1 months ago
      @MJ And after the junior doctors payrise, taxes will increase, hence more begging bowls for more pay rises.  Everyone will be crawling out of the woodwork, to get more pay rises.  Meaning the goverment will cut more off the welfare budget to pay for it.

      I noticed the government  doesn't or wont stop, or massively reduce foreign aid (15+ billion per year)  Neither will they go cut the royal family's increase each year.  And neither will they cut down on the corporate tax dodgers etc.  There's lots of other ways this government could save money, rather than target disabled people to fill in this so-called black hole.

      They could also claw some of the 35 billion quid Liz Truss ballsed up, when she was PM.  They could stop that 100+k per year for life game.  That should pull back a few bob, and also stop other MP's getting it too.

      If you left work either due to being sick, ill, disabled, or got sacked, your firm wont pay you 100K+ for life will they.

      Labour is going about things the wrong way, or I should say their priorities are in the wrong order.  More of this nonsense will cost them dearly @ the next GE in 5 years time.  Blue / reds you couldnt make it up if you tried.  Thats what you get for having Blues infiltrate in reds politics / policies, the blues have tainted labour.  Like Kendall for one.
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      Boogz · 1 months ago
      @MJ We tried to warn people that Labour would do this kind of thing but were called every nasty name under the sun. It's only going to get worse. But hey, while we're freezing and hungry in the winter at least we'll know that we're helping fund "green initiatives". Kind of ironic really... to save the planet from "burning" we'll all have to freeze. Smh
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    M · 1 months ago
    I suggest everyone should email their MPs and highlight their concerns in realation to the possibility of means testing PIP
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    Shawn · 1 months ago
    Why is everyone saying oct, they didnt wait till then to remove the pensioners winter allowance, whatever they decide could happen anytime, 
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      Brian Marriott · 1 months ago
      @Shawn It won’t happen till they are back if it dose the people are on break till September 
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      lesley · 1 months ago
      @Shawn Shawn, from my understanding it's been on the cards for a long time.  The tories did not do it because they made a clear play for the gray vote by pledging to increase the income pensioners can receive before they are taxed amongst other things!
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      mrfibro · 1 months ago
      @Brian Marriott And off they all go on a nice jolly until Octoberish.  No doubt they made sure they get big pay rises.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      mrfibro · 1 months ago
      @Shawn Exactly.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Brian Marriott · 1 months ago
      @Shawn They are shut till September so no changes yet 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    M · 1 months ago
    I suggest that everyone writes to their Labour MPs and suggests that of PIP is means tested that they will think twice about voting Labour again (if they have voted them)
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      Robin Hood · 1 months ago
      @M I didn’t vote Labour or Conservative or  anyone else as matter of fact because I don’t trust anyone who sits in the Houses of Parliament pls see my points in my comments…
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      mrfibro · 1 months ago
      @M labours not bothered all they're bothered about is the now. Labours just wants to put their political stamp on it.  They will worry about voters in another 4 years time.  Then they will dangle the carrot's.  
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    M · 1 months ago
    Prior to the election I send an email to an number of Labour MPs including the Deputy Leader, Liz Kendall and more left to the party MPs such as Diane Abott.

    I asked if Labour were to be successful following the general election would they means test PIP. I  didn't receive an response from anyone. 

    It is clear that Labour our now using now to state that after reviewing the country's books its worse that they thought it was and using this to break vague manifesto pledges.

    What needs to be done is everyone needs to email their Labour MPs and explain that if PIP is to be means tested that you will not be voting Labour again 

    After all they stated future disability policy would be done in conjunction with disability groups. No disability group I know is in favour of means testing 

    Email now folks 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Fox · 1 months ago
    it dosn't work in the USA, so why the hell do they want to bring it here.

    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Anon · 1 months ago
      @Fox In the USA all disability benefits are paid in cash, not vouchers. Their disability benefits are quite generous, if you have enough work credits (national insurance contributions). They are very difficult to qualify for though.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    CP · 1 months ago
    Goodness knows what the government has planned. I'm going to tune out from it all until October. We will hear then from the horse's mouth so to speak on what changes there is going to be. It's out of our hands so to speak and speculating only causes anxiety.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      claresturgeon · 1 months ago
      @dgc True. I just feel it's out of our hands now. Until they announce the cold hard facts I'm doing my best and trying not to get swept away with all the speculation.
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      dgc · 1 months ago
      @CP The problem for us is that it may be the horse's mouth but is it trying to make an ass of us or perhaps the mouth belongs to an ass because the government are not listening or do not want to listen, as elsewhere they just want to punish us weak and poor, and raid our bank accounts. It looks good for the government throwing our money around the world. 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Nightcity · 1 months ago
      @CP And even then it will follow a very slow process and have charities and activists etc on it.

      This won't be a worry no matter what is announced for a few years.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Joe · 1 months ago
    well reeves has taken up  were gordon (85p) brown  started on pensioners which lost them the 2010 election.
    is she a conservative trojan in disguise?  

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      Anon · 1 months ago
      @Joe They completely wrecked the economy, like every Labour government before them.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    lesley · 1 months ago
    I doubt that PIP will be means tested.  Just think? Then all those on a means tested P.I.P. will also be eligible for the Winter Fuel Allowance which Rachel Reeves has just announce will only be for people on means tested benefits. %-( don't make no sense to me.  All gobbledy gook and a paradox) Said Alice! Weirder and weirder!
    Anyway it's going to take a while to sort it all out. 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    JJ · 1 months ago
    The means test scenario seems like one brought up many times here, another theory was that there will be another PIP tier. 

    Liz Kendall is doing this DWP reform in Autumn, Rachel Reeves' budget is on October 30th, it's best not to hyperbole things until if or when they happen.
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      True · 1 months ago
      @JJ I just wish they would tell people and get it over with this has been going on for months because of the Tories people are becoming even  sicker with worry .
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      David · 1 months ago
      @JJ Thanks for the update 
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    Stewart Edwards · 1 months ago
    Some thoughts…

    I have incurable cancer, osteoarthritis and some other stuff. My wife is disabled and has suffered depression and anxiety for 25 years, so I write this with some experience.


    1. Winter Fuel Payment. Only going to those on benefits. So some will lose out (sadly including some marginal cases no doubt). But equally some pensioners are fairly wealthy and don’t need it. Reeves was also clear that Councils etc should work to get everyone on Pension Credit who is entitled to it. So it’s really a case of trying to help poor pensioners.

    2. Work. “Those who can work should work.” Can’t really argue with that. So it’s a question of whether the DWP think you can work or not. I struggle to believe that Labour will be harsher than the Tories here. Integration of local health services, and reducing hospital waiting lists, will in time cure many, (but obviously nowhere near all) who can then work. Getting rid of exploitative zero hour contracts will also help people gain job security again. We also know that Labour understands that sanctions don’t work (though have I think so far only talked about the longest sanctions).

    Give Labour a chance. They are only three weeks in and have already begun to sort the NHS by eliminating the strikes that make waiting lists longer. It also seems that their view of job centres being places of “work not welfare” are going to be more positively supportive and solution based, than the Tory’s you are a minute late so no money for you for weeks/months. If you can work, but don’t want to, yes you will likely have problems (as you do just now), if you want to work you are likely to find better support and solutions, but if you genuinely can’t work, that is a fact that there is no getting around, whatever government is in power.

    Change can be terrifying, I know this. I see it in my wife. But unless we accept that change happens, we will remain terrified. Would you rather that the Tories remained in power and ploughed on with their policies?

    Give Labour a chance. They deserve that. They after all won a democratic election. Just three weeks ago.
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      Scrounger · 1 months ago
      @Matt If we didn't have such a vociferously right-wing media that loves bashing people on welfare I doubt we'd have these policies now. None of it makes any sense. They can find money to support Ukraine but can't find any money ti abolish child benefit cap, or the bedroom tax etc
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Stewart Edwards · 1 months ago
      @Matt Matt

      Hopefully those real practical issues that you note in your final paragraph will be dealt with in the solutions thinking. The targets is a difficult one though for any public company (performance being measured by share price and growth).

      As I noted above I do understand the terror (fear can sometimes  not be strong enough), and its effects on health. But I prefer to be glass half full, than glass half empty. If Labour repeat Tory mistakes it will be bad, but it would have been bad anyway had the Tories won. Just now they are saying the right things to keep the markets happy (remember Truss).

      Everyone deserves a fair chance. Hopefully Labour will give it to the ill and disabled. Until October at least it is only fair that we give them a fair chance.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Matt · 1 months ago
      @Stewart Edwards I could argue the point about a 'democratic election' where nearly 40% didn't vote, and Labour got a majority of 174 with about 35% of the votes cast....

      As for giving Labour a chance...perceptions can be as important as facts.  People are suspicious that austerity is going to continue.  And the disabled traditionally are the easy target.

      With regards to work, I would really like some tougher anti-discrimination legislation with regards to employment. Most disabled people want to work; most employers, in my experience, do not want the hassle of the extra time to train the staff, the time it takes for access for work equipment to appear, and managers obsession with 'targets'.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Freda · 1 months ago
    I’m hoping they don’t replace pip with vouchers not unless those vouchers can help with heating too. My other half is on dialysis(9 years), has never smoked and drunk alcohol occasionally. He  has high blood pressure, AF, heart block, liver disease, peripheral atrial disease, kidney cancer, diverticulitis, diabetic, CKD-aP is also known as uremic pruritus. This is what happens to you when you’ve been on a machine for 15 hours a week 3 days a week, every week for 9 years. The machine eventually can’t reduce the toxins the same as you get older. He worked from the age of 15 full time until this happened to him at 60. After 45 years he had to give up which wouldn’t have been his choice. He worked in heavy industry as a fabricator and was too tired to continue and was falling asleep at work which was dangerous when using machinery. Our heating bills even in summer are high as he’s freezing cold All the time. He’s no kidney function to regulate the bodies temperature and his body temperature seems to be stuck on cold. He won’t die of kidney disease but cardiovascular diseases are the main cause of mortality in end-stage renal patients receiving haemodialysis. 

    This would impact my situation as my husband would have to pay tax on every penny of PIP but why not make it taxable. I’m not greedy and I’m sure the government could raise plenty money taxing pip, especially if your a pensioner and have a full pension. The new full State Pension is near the threshold, you start to pay tax at.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    DJ · 1 months ago
    Billions squandered and their response to fill 'a black hole' is to raid pensioners winter fuel payments.

    If regular PIP payments  are to be rplaced with vouchers then our politicians should also be using them for their expenses.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Cass · 1 months ago
    I would love to see the government try to force parents claiming child benefit to have to submit vouchers or receipts in order to receive a payment. Proposing this would result in absolute uproar, I'm certain. They wouldn't even consider it despite the fact it would actually probably go some way to helping child poverty.

    Thing is, having children is always an active choice, where as becoming ill/disabled never is - yet disabled people are constantly treated like second class citizens and are looked upon as "scroungers" simply for needing help to afford life's most basic needs. Where as 'tax payers' are more than happy to support child care fees and banging the drum about the two child benefit cap but turn their heads to the needs of disabled people. 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Hannah B · 1 months ago
    If this government means test pip I will have to give up the job I love and go on universal credit. I use my pip for special taxis to be able to go to work in my wheelchair among other things. I thought this government wanted more disabled people at work. Why punish those who work in their wheelchairs.! 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      lesley · 1 months ago
      @Hannah B
      Dear Hannah B, it's a disgrace and I honestly cannot see any sense to means testing P.I.P.
      Well done Hannah for getting out and working.
      Even though I am nearly 77 and on D.L.A. I still filled out the consultation "green paper" form and used the B&W guide lines.
      If they means test P.I.P. then nothing stopping them from means testing D.L.A. and Attendance Allowance.  Where will they stop?
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