Benefits and Work and Inclusion London have obtained counsel’s advice on possible challenges to the Pathways To Work Green Paper proposals. 

The advice suggests that at this stage there appears to be no clear or obvious route for challenge or ‘silver bullet’ regarding the ‘flagship’ elements of the policy.  Instead, individuals and organisations should focus efforts on challenging elements of the Green Paper politically as much as possible.

Benefits and Work and Inclusion London asked solicitors Leigh Day to obtain advice from counsel about the potential legal challenges to the March 2025 welfare reform proposals.  Leigh Day appointed barrister Tom Royston of Garden Court North Chambers to undertake the work.

Both Leigh Day and Tom Royston have a great deal of experience in social security law and we are grateful to them for the very detailed advice they have provided.

The advice addressed the following proposals in the Green Paper:

(I) ‘Focussing PIP more on those with higher needs’: the proposal to require at least one 4 point descriptor to be met to qualify for PIP;

(II) ‘Scrap the WCA’: the proposal to amend the process by which ill and disabled people can claim income replacement benefit, and the amount of money they receive;

(III) ‘New unemployment insurance’: the proposal to amalgamate contributory ESA and JSA into a single time limited contributory benefit;

(IV) ‘Delaying access to the UC health element until age 22’: not paying 18-21 PIP recipients any extra means tested element in UC.

Looking in summary at the above proposals, counsel told us that substantial challenges to central aspects of the envisaged legislation would ‘be likely to fall at various places along a spectrum from ‘hopeless’ to ‘challenging’.”

In other words, given the information currently available, the chances of preventing the proposals being made law or overturning them subsequently appear to be limited.

In relation specifically to PIP, a range of issues were considered, including - but not limited to -the decision not to consult on this measure, challenges under the Human Rights Act 1998 and challenges under the Equality Act 2010.  But the probability of any challenge succeeding in relation to the PIP 4-point rule specifically was considered to be low and heavily dependent on circumstances.

Counsel did stress, however, that there may well be successful legal challenges in the future to elements of the above proposals, but these are likely to be to “contingent aspects of the proposals which emerge along the way, rather than to the elementary principles which were clear at the start.”

In other words, if the laws are enacted, then the courts may have a major role to play in examining the way they are interpreted and implemented but not in upsetting the basic foundations, such as the PIP 4-point rule. Benefits and Work will aim to support any such challenges in any way it can.

We are not able to publish the advice at present and we should add that it applies only to the four issues listed.  The Green Paper contains many more proposals that were not covered.

In addition, we did not ask for advice on whether the current Green Paper consultation is lawful, because our initial enquiries are primarily about proposals which are not being consulted on.

We know that this news will be greeted with considerable dismay by many readers, who had hoped that the courts could prevent such clearly cruel and discriminatory proposals coming into force.

Sadly, there seems unlikely to be ‘silver bullet’ or straightforward legal answer.

Instead, by far the best hope of preventing these cuts is to persuade MPs to pledge to vote against them, as evidence grows that the Labour Party is struggling to contain a rebellion.

As one Labour MP, Neil Duncan-Jordan, who won his seat with a majority of just 18 votes but who has 5,000 constituents receiving PIP, told the Guardian  “The whole policy is wrong. It goes without saying that if these benefits cuts go through, I will be toast in this seat.”

More facts about the effects of the cuts are being uncovered with each passing week. 

Making MPs, especially those with slim majorities, aware of how dramatically the cuts will affect claimant’s lives provides the best hope that they will never come to pass.

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  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 2 days ago
    WorkshyLayabout Attendance Allowance does not include access to the motability scheme so even if people qualified (it wouldn't be automatic) they would lose their cars. 

    Losing lcwra would not result in loss of housing benefit, and in universal credit, whether jobseeker, or lcw, there is a work allowance before earnings are deducted from the benefit. There is no work allowance at state pension age, just £5/week disregard in some cases.

    Yes, of course there are people of working age who cannot work, that's a position we're all defending in our resistance to the green paper, but the whole premise of getting people into work is nonsense in relation to the retired, that's the point: they are not of working age. The application of criteria conditional on working to claimants of universal credit or other working age benefits, however detrimental, is a separate issue.
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      · 1 days ago
      @WorkshyLayabout WorkshyLayabout Your question is personal, my argument is principle.

      However, to present a scenario: someone with full state pension (by reason of contributions, credits or a combination), who loses pip daily living at whatever level (by reason of the 4 point rule), would not qualify for the severe disability allowance (by reason of not getting pip daily living) and would therefore not qualify for pension credit (by reason of not getting the severe disability allowance).

      If in social housing they would not be automatically eligible for full housing benefit(by reason of not being eligible for pension credit). Their income and their eligibility far housing benefit and council tax reduction would be assessed, and any award would be reduced accordingly, including by the difference between full state pension and the pension credit eligibility threshold, which is the same as the personal allowance for housing benefit and the minimum the government says you have to live on. For anyone in private rented accommodation with rent exceeding the local housing allowance, the burden would be on the claimant to make up the difference between their eligible rent and their actual rent, hence leaving them with less to live on than the minimum set by the government.

      Anyone losing pip daily living, whatever their wider circumstances, will be poorer. This is not a competition, and to treat it as such is to fall for the government's divide and rule strategy. My point, shared by others posting on this site, with reference to pensioners, is that the government cannot invoke the concept of working to earn one's way out of the loss of benefit income where people are over working age. That is a contradiction.

      As I expressed previously, those of working age, who cannot work, have their own distinct arguments to make and I support them. I have no interest in pitting one group against another. The green paper proposals are unacceptable and it is up to everyone to make it their business to oppose them, regardless of their individual situation. My individual situation is not your business.


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      · 1 days ago
      @godgivemestrength What benefits are you currently getting and which will you lose if the proposals happen? Also have you paid enough years of national insurance contributions for a full state pension?

      You do not have to answer.


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      · 2 days ago
      @godgivemestrength No,but it pip affects how much HB you can get,the loss of pip daily living and then lcwra make a huge difference in paying your rent,this is the only thong that won't affect me because I Don't pay rent but I'm set to lose around 12k per annum,cbesa,pip,higher rate no 4 pointers and carers,it won't make me well again will it and I still won't be working ,I've left the house alone this morning on my own for 5 mins,something I haven't done in a very long time and I'm absolutely exhausted for it,work?  no chance,losing my last 3 jobs has said enough 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 2 days ago
    I assume Public Law Project and Bhatt Murphy are still examining the possibility of taking legal action?
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      · 2 days ago
      @Anon I'm set to lose everything, I still can't earn independently,i find that the only thing helping me atm is to step away and put other things in my head,I don't know what else to do,I've had a breakdown over this,it started last April when sunak came out and said they were going to take our payments, I couldn't relax at all,ended up not being able to swallow and list my voice for almost 5 months,I ended up in a state and on sleeping tablets,still have em now,but I'm realising now it's not about worrying about surviving this or u turns ,it's about accepting its gunna happen and trying to find a solution,for us that means trying to live on £353 a month medical retirement pension and my husbands part time wages as hes still going to have to care for me,it means hand to mouth and probably debt,this is where we are,I've cut back already very heavily on energy and food costs, I've cancelled tv licence, lowered everything I can,what else is there to do? I wrote to Jo platt mp for leigh and Atherton who supports the cuts,I hope she isn't expecting to get reelected, she won't be getting my vote that much I do know
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      · 2 days ago
      @Marc Even if they do, as mentioned above, it will fall.

      Labour has asked us to compete with 4 million+ non-disabled for 800 thousand jobs.

      This is a completely reasonable ask.

      Hi-ho
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 2 days ago
    Please never ever vote for this corrupt government!!!!
    Who made promises asked people for the vote:) then done all this they have kicked us down, and don’t care, they don’t live in the real world 
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      · 1 days ago
      @🙁🙁 Voting Greens in local elections next week. Will never vote Labour again and I got no trust in libDems and Torys and reform
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      · 2 days ago
      @Anon Yes, they were extremely evasive and when asked repeatedly either changed the subject or gave some ambiguous nonsensical answer. That made me suspicious that they couldn't be trusted and things were going to be severe. 
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      · 2 days ago
      @🙁🙁 Everyone remember Labour's very quiet and evasive attitude all last year whenever questioned on welfare reform?

      "Don't show your cards before or right after the election"
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    · 2 days ago
    As I stated from the beginning the ONLY way for this to be challenged is at the green paper stage. 

    The ONLY hope is for sufficient back bench revolt and I DID and HAVE always said sufficient public outcry but in order to hear public outcry you have to be humane. Starmer and co are NOT humane. 

    I agree with the post that was written by another member (UNABLE to remember exactly who) Some of the green paper proposals were already going on toward the end of the Torie reign. 

    Thanks to Works and Benefits site and the advice from Counsel that they have sought we NOW all KNOW what we are up against. In particular moving forward with this 4 point rule where it appears they seldom give you the full points under any descriptor/activity. Those who have the strength are going to have to go to mandatory consideration and beyond.. However, that WILL ultimately clog up the court system. 

    The disabled community that should have been consulted over this 4 point rule were NOT. 

    However, ALL on this site NEED TO WAKE UP and realize that consultations have been taking place behind our backs for a considerable amount of time.

    Such as:


    THERE HAS BEEN A SHIFT IN ATTITUDE BREWING FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS OVER CERTAIN DISABILITIES AND MENTAL HEALTH EVEN AT PRIMARY CARE I AM SURPRISED THAT NO ONE ELSE HAS NOTICED THIS.

    WHERE DO YOU THINK SOME OF THE STATISTICS THAT STARMER AND CO ARE SHOUTING ABOUT HAVE COME FROM?

    2)  Roll out of migration from Income related ESA to UC was SUPPOSED to have slowly been phased out  allowing until 2028, NOW it is by March 2026! Fears that the DWP system will NOT ensure that the transitions run smoothly between being in the support group and being correctly placed in the equivalent LCWRA group on UC. Then claimants are also FACED with having to provide sick notes from their GP when it SHOULD NOT BE SO as their status on ESA should automatically transfer across to UC. in addition to other claimants MISTAKENLY being put in the working group. When in the Support Group on ESA.

    I am currently going through this process at the moment. THANK GOD for the CAB in my case.

    There are also other members on this site that are being put through the migration process also at this present time and so will a lot more be. IT IS IN A MESS and ERRORS are being made as 66,000 letters a month are being sent out at the moment. So that Starmer and co.. can make the 2026 deadline!

    THE HARM HAS ALREADY STARTED!

    Business Decisions overriding Clinical Decisions. Primary Care Services may perceive that these changes will lessen their work-loads but WAIT until those of us who are chronically long-term sick and disabled are pushed to the brink physically and mentally and THEN they will be called on more than any amount of the sick notes that for some claimants they have thus far had to write. 

    They are going on about work coaches but so many have left the profession! THAT IS A FACT. 

    There are NOT jobs for the able-bodied let alone those with disabilities and ill-health that ALL employers would have to make reasonable adjustments for and the insurance that would be higher.

    Just last week I read that the Government OWE millions to small businesses that made reasonable adjustments to employ the disabled.

    THIS NEWS DOES NOT COME AS A SHOCK TO ME! AS I STATED WEEKS AGO, THE ONLY HOPE WAS FOR SUFFICIENT BACK BENCH REVOLT AND PUBLIC OUTCRY. 

    I DO THINK THAT AS TIME GOES ON THAT IF IT IS MADE LAW THAT THERE WILL BE MANY,MANY LEGAL CHALLENGES ALONG THE WAY AS HEALTH AND SAFETY ISSUES WILL NOT BE IN PLACE AS THEY SHOULD BE.

    I HOPE ALL THOSE AGENCIES AND DISABILITY CHARITIES THAT SUPPORTED LABOUR WITH THEIR BEHIND OUR BACK CONSULTATIONS WHO MAY OR MAY NOT NOW BE THINKING IT HAS NOW GONE FAR TOO FAR, ARE READY FOR THE FALL-OUT OF WHAT IS GOING TO BE ONE TRAGEDY AFTER ANOTHER AS A RESULT OF THIS. THEY WILL HOWEVER, NOT HAVE LESS OF A WORK LOAD BUT EVEN MORE OF A WORK LOAD AS PEOPLE ARE NOT GOING TO MIRACULOUSLY GET BETTER. INDEED THIS IS GOING TO EXACERBATE THE SICK AND DISABLED HEALTH CONDITIONS. 

    JUST KEEP ON AT YOUR LOCAL MP'S COUNCILS AND YES FOLKS, EVEN YOUR PRIMARY CARE GP SERVICES, SOCIAL WORKERS, LET THEM ALL KNOW THAT THEY ARE NOT GOING TO BE LESS BUSY BUT INDEED ARE GOING TO BE OVER WORKED AS THERE ARE GOING TO BE MANY MANY CASUALTIES OF THIS! 

    AGENCY CARE WORKERS WHO HAVE NOW YET TO REALIZE THAT IF THE PROPOSALS GO AHEAD THEY ARE NOT GOING TO HAVE A JOB! THOSE WHO HAVE NOT ENTERED INTO THE PROFESSION BECAUSE THEY CARE BUT INDEED HAVE ABUSED CLIENTS. WHO HAVE COMMENTED IN IGNORANCE TO CLIENTS ABOUT THE PROPOSALS FRIGHTENING PEOPLE.

    THEY HAVE ALL HAD A LOT TO SAY ABOUT US THE DISABLED, LONG TERM SICK BEHIND OUR BACKS WITH THEIR CONSULTATIONS THAT ONLY A FEW IN SOCIETY WERE PICKING UP ON. OVER THE LAST 18 MONTHS OR THEREABOUTS.
     






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      · 1 days ago
      @SLB But why hes also targeting not just teenagers but old and midelaged and pensioners seen loads of posts 70 yrs old also go lose pip to 
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      · 2 days ago
      @DJ Starmer isn't quoting statistics, he's just repeating over and over that these cuts are to get the young back into work.  
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    · 2 days ago
    I’m a single mum to a 4 year old. I’m largely housebound, very often bedbound with M.E. Rely on carer’s support for cooking, cleaning, caring for my child, shopping, lifts to appointments etc. Obviously desperate to be well enough to work but just getting to the loo and back some days uses all the energy I have. Simply cannot work more than a few hours per week max during better periods of health. 
    The changes will knock £6k off my annual income and leave me with less that £10k per year total income (inc. child maintenance and child benefit). I cannot survive on this. My bills are all going up. Can’t eat, heat, care for my child etc etc. Utterly terrified. 
    Even if this talked about extra support to ‘tackle child poverty’ goes through with payments for parents of children under 5, this doesn’t include me. I will be in ‘absolute poverty’ and I don’t know what further sanctions will be placed on me when I still can’t work. 
    I’m completely shocked that this doesn’t constitute a legal case. 

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      · 1 days ago
      @Anon A @Anon there been protests in Bristol today on the benefit cuts and heard a couple of famous actors also came to join the protests to 
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      · 1 days ago
      @Anon A I thought young folk had to remain in education until they were 18. Surely being in full-time educational means they are not expected to look for work.
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      · 1 days ago
      @Von I got a standard reply from my mp Jo platt,about getting young into work etc etc, she supports the cuts,if she seriously thinks she's getting voted back in she's mistaken, leigh is a downtrodden area with many sick snd disabled and Atherton isn't much better,they are poor towns with many people having a low income ,she will lose her seat over this,that I'm sure of,she obviously doesn't know the area she's an mp for as much as she thinks,leigh people were always supported by Andy Burnham who always got voted in until he left politics and became mayor,he is not in favour of the cuts atall
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      · 1 days ago
      @Mick I've just researched Angela raynors stance on the cuts,she is spouting on about having to get 16 to 18 yr olds into work as an excuse for the cuts,when will people wake up,NEETS as their known  DONT CLAIM PIP fgs they must think just because were disabled were also stupid,WRONG!!!
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      · 2 days ago
      @Dave It was only last week I watched Angela Raynor in an interview fully supporting the cuts and completely toeing the party line.  Exact same language and lines coming out of her face hole as the rest of them.  I'm not sure about the threat to resign still standing as it seems she has turned the other cheek based on the interview I watched.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 2 days ago
    Thank you B@W for this update. I still have hope the right legal case with be enough to get it into Court.
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    · 2 days ago
    This Nightmare never ends 😫 
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    · 2 days ago
    I still think they should have just reduced the UC health element and PIP by 25% across the board. This ALL OR NOTHING system they’ve used is fine for the ones who get the all, but, catastrophic and unliveable for the nothings?! With a minor cut at least we’d be able to tighten our belts or maybe use some savings to manage our daily living expenditures. I personally won’t be able to live on the double cut I,ve got coming. The govt would have got the money they needed and people like me could at least survive with a bit of wiggle room rather than an unsurmountable financial challenge that scares the h”’l out of me. 
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      · 2 days ago
      @Dave It's better than losing it altogether!
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      · 2 days ago
      @DJ Ask for the breakdown in your assessment points now so you can see for yourself x
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      · 2 days ago
      @Hightower Pardon? Could you honestly afford to lose quarter of your income? 

      My partners uncle is on Pip + Esa + he certainly wouldn't be able to afford to lose a whole quarter of his money. 
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      · 2 days ago
      @Hightower Hi Hightower

      YES I agree with you and I GENUINELY do NOT know whether I scored 4 points on one of the descriptors/activities there were certain claimants that NEVER did get the breakdown as SCOPE has realized in recent weeks. I was one of them that DID NOT receive the breakdown of the points.

      When the Tories made the cuts about 8 to 10 years ago, thereabouts, they FROZE the amount of benefits for a number of years. Which was NOT good, BUT at least disabled and sick knew that we were still getting a certain amount to live on a week/month knowing that we were NOT going to see a rise in our benefits along with annual inflation. NOT GOOD but at least we were aware. 

      I AM SCARED TOO! 

      It is NOT as if we are going to miraculously get better we have permanent severe disabilities and ill - health. 


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    · 2 days ago
    This is such a blow but there are still other options, like the encouraging news we heard yesterday from benefits and work. There are more and more labour Mp's becoming unhappy with the proposals and are realizing that their seats are in jeopardy. Hopefully there will be enough of them and Mp's from the other parties to kick this green paper into orbit. 
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    · 2 days ago
    The Green Paper will be challenged and Labour's "half way house" will be to leave people who will lose the standard rate of PIP and LCWRA on the standard rate of Universal Credit in which the LCW criteria sits upon. None of these cuts and changes and legislations was dreamt up in one day, this has been thought of for a long while even going back to the former Conservative government.

    This is not about getting people into work, it's about cutting money from the most vulnerable. The foot cannot be allowed off of the pedal, you truly cannot let these people send the lives of disabled people further into destitution. Labour's plans must be challenged in every way it can.
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      · 1 days ago
      @DJ Yes I got 12 points on the Daily Living with a combination of 3’s !!
      I could have gone for Mandatory Consideration but was desperate for the process to be done with so let it go. Got Enhanced for Mobility again. 
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      · 2 days ago
      @Matt Hi Matt

      I think to be honest with you, even if you are on the enhanced rate for daily living that there will be claimants that did NOT get 4 points on just one of the descriptors/activities! It is entirely possible to NOT have got 4 points on one of the descriptors but still across the entire spectrum of activities/descriptors to have made up 12 points or more Which means they will also lose!


      THIS SHOWS JUST HOW WARPED THE ENTIRE SYSTEM IS.

      FACT IS AS HUMAN BEINGS WITH CHRONIC, SEVERE, LIFE LONG HEALTH CONDITIONS AND DISABILITIES. WAS IT EVER RIGHT THAT ARE EXISTENCE HAD TO BE QUANTIFIED BY A POINT SYSTEM? 

      PIP evolved as a subjective test and yet now with this Government and towards the end of the Torie reign (who abolished DLA) are now changing the goal post again and to some extent reverting back to some degree how DLA was awarded. 

      There were a lot of disabled people in poverty under DLA, the Torie's thought that when they introduced PIP that would cut down the amount of claimants on DLA, when in actual FACT it demonstrated when those being made to transfer from DLA to PIP that indeed an awful lot of people on the old DLA system were more than in poverty the derisory amount of benefit that they were surviving on was exacerbating their health and disabilities further. 

      As such the Tories then realized that INDEED there were/are a lot of severely disabled people who were NOT getting the correct amount of money which was a shock to the Tories. As with every Government  which ever party is in power the sick and the disabled are ALWAYS frowned upon. 

      NOW in part, in my opinion, they now want to in a roundabout way to rewind to some extent, as to how disability payments were awarded under the historic DLA and to take it one step further. KNOWING that it will cause untold human suffering. 








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      · 2 days ago
      @Dave Dee That's not a halfway house.  It's a loss of £700+ a month.
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      · 2 days ago
      @Dave Dee So essentially, if you work and get PIP standard living, you're screwed 
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      · 2 days ago
      @Dave Dee It looks very like as regards to the Pip 4 points issue that they worked out from there stored data that few people get 4 points for one activity and that the scope for upgrading to 4 points in future is reasonably remote and so this was the golden opportunity for the change. It is absolutely fear-inducing for those who might get reviewed from their current entitlement once these changes have come into plate if they do and incredibly demoralising to think of the future implications for new claimants who would have been so much better off at least to a tolerable extent comparatively had these changes not come about.   What is equally worrying is what has not yet been contrived or announced as regards the next attack on the welfare state because that can't be ruled out given the rhetoric and the brutal way this is being done for example before an impact assessment has been properly worked through and instead the plan is to have this voted on beforehand.  That shows real ruthlessness and everybody should say what they can to convince their elected representatives
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    · 2 days ago
    Not good, but it just reinforces the need to keep up the pressure on MPs to oppose these cuts - abstaining would be essentially voting for them and is nowhere near good enough.

    The only way to win a fight this is to make the political price of persisting with this policy too high. That's what happened with the Poll Tax - it was passed, it came into force, but eventually it was scrapped because it was so unpopular. 

    This needs to be made Labour's Poll Tax. That won't be easy because the Poll Tax affected everyone whereas these cuts don't.  Nevertheless, when you include the friends and family of those affected that still adds up to a significant chunk of the population, and even those who don't think these cuts will ever affect them need to be reminded that they're never more than a single life-changing illness or accident away from needing the benefits system themselves. In any case, the cynical weaponising of trans people as culture war fodder by the right shows how an issue doesn't have to affect all that many people at all in order to get political traction. Labour really needs to be brought to the point of concluding that it's just not worth paying the political price of persisting with these cuts.

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      · 1 days ago
      @Old Mother Are we able to email MPs that are not our MPs? As tney always ask for our address etc. thanks 
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      · 2 days ago
      @tintack Agree. Keep letting MPs of all parties know they will lose your vote if they support these cuts.  Including abstaining. 

      A vote of no confidence could be in the horizon for Labour. 
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      · 2 days ago
      @tintack I agree. Disabled people need to get more political and act together so no party can afford to ignore us. Pointing it this could end Labour's rein might be the strongest argument
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    · 2 days ago
    I'll try again as something went wrong last time.   Thanks for the information about the legal situation, but there's probably not much we didn't know already in this regard.  That doesn't mean we should give up:  

    1.) I notice there's been several local newspaper stories on the subject of the cuts recently, with local MPs and councillors speaking out against them.   
    2.)There are still the council elections to protest with.  If the Labour vote share plummets, it will help show how much the public is aganist these benefit cuts.  
    3.)That, in turn, would give the rebel MPs something to fight their cause with.  If they can get the vote put back to the autumn when the full impact assessment becomes available, it could be a significant win for us,and might ultimately force Labour's hand to water down their proposals.  Don't get me wrong changes are coming, wthether we like it or not, what we need to try to ensure is that they are watered down - but how the govt backtracks without embarrassment, I have no idea. 

    Whatever does get watered down (if anything) isn't going to please everyone, that's for sure, but I don't think its beyond the realms of possibility that there will be a third tier of daily living (which might or might not be a gateway to health UC), or that mobility PIP could be a gateway to UC.   The govt could agree to both of those things without it looking like it's doing a U-turn. 

    One other thing: is there anyone on the board involved in the virtual meetings for the consultation?  Or who has taken part in that way before?

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      · 1 days ago
      @WorkshyLayabout Indeed, which is why the PIP assessment cannot determine capacity for work - it's not designed to assess that and therefore cannot do so.

      The UC health element as assessed by a PIP-style assessment from 2028 must be different to the proposed new UC premium for those who cannot work. The latter is explicitly linked to incapacity for work and will therefore require an incapacity for work test (basically the current WCA with a new lick of paint would be my guess), whereas they're saying that the former will no longer be linked to incapacity for work. How this will actually play out, god knows: I get the distinct impression that they're making a lot of this up as they go along.
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      · 1 days ago
      @tintack Exactly. The PIP test is mainly to find out how someone manages day-to-day tasks in the house, but being able to cope fine and dandily at home does not automatically equal being fine and dandy in the workplace.
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      · 2 days ago
      @Bern400
      "from 2028 the new UC test to see if a disabled person can work will be based on the PIP assessment."

      From 2028 the PIP test will be the basis for the UC health element. They're saying that in doing this the health element will no longer be linked to capacity or incapacity to work, so this proposed PIP-based assessment will not be there to see if someone can work or not. Indeed, it can't be: an assessment that tests if someone can work or not is by definition an incapcity for work test - and the PIP assessment is not an incapacity for work test.

      The government is also saying there will be a new UC premium for those who can't work. As this will be a new premium - something that currently does not exist - the implication is that it will be something separate from the UC health element. Since it is apparently a premium for those who can't work, an incapacity for work test will be required to see who qualifies for it. Since the PIP assessment is not an incapacity for work test, and therefore cannot be used for that purpose, the WCA will have to be replaced with an incapcity for work test of some sort, which would likely be something very similar to the WCA itself.
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      · 2 days ago
      @tintack from 2028 the new UC test to see if a disabled person can work will be based on the PIP assessment. 12 yrs ago the main disability assessment (DLA) had 3 tiers of financial support (low/ medium/high), the Tories then changed the assessment to PIP with just 2 tiers of support (standard/enhanced) in order to cut the welfare bill. The new proposals will in effect reduce disability financial support to JUST 1 tier (enhanced) of financial support as 87% of claimants currently receiving standard rate pip did not score 4 points in any of the descriptors 
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      · 2 days ago
      @Bob
      "Pip is the new test for universal credit"

      I know they're proposing to make the PIP assessment or something based on it the test for the health element of UC. My point is that since the PIP assessment is not an incapacity for work test, they can't use it to determine who qualifies for the new UC premium they're talking about for those who can't work. An incapacity for work test will be needed In order to determine who falls into that category, even if that turns out to be basically the WCA under another name. 
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    · 2 days ago
    How about the whole thing-

    The green paper purports to be about getting people back to work. How can this apply to pensioners who would lose pip, pension credit, winter fuel allowance, at least some housing benefit and would have to pay private rents in excess of the local housing allowance out of their state pension, which would be their only remaining income?

    People in that scenario could be left with less than the personal allowance to live on, set by the government. Surely there's a legal challenge to that?
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      · 3 hours ago
      @Bern400 I've had to do the 35 hour a week job search back in 2011 when I was unemployed before my diagnosis of schizophrenia back in 2013.Also had to do work placement for 6 months receiving no extra money only £75 a week job seekers allowance.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 1 days ago
      @Bern400 Correct
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 2 days ago
      @Anon You're right BUT......if you lose PIP and LCWRA you will then be expected to look for work, attend fortnightly coaching sessions at the job centre and accept ANY job the DWP find/offer you. If you won't/can't provide proof you've spent 35 hours PER WEEK searching and applying for jobs or refuse a job offer then you will be sanctioned losing upto all your existing benefits for upto 6 months.
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      · 2 days ago
      @Cecelia It's the amount, you get more if on pip,less if you're not
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      · 2 days ago
      @WorkshyLayabout Working-age won't lose housing element. They will keep UC standard and housing element if they lose LCWRA/PIP.

      Right?
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    · 2 days ago
    I posted this but it was cut:

    The green paper purports to be about getting people back to work. How can this apply to pensioners who would lose pip, pension credit, winter fuel allowance, at least some housing benefit and would have to pay private rents in excess of the local housing allowance out of their state pension, which would be their only remaining income? 

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    · 2 days ago
    thanks for that good news(not)
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 2 days ago
    The green paper purports to be about getting people back to work. How can this apply to state pensioners 
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      · 1 days ago
      @FionaW More than half do not work, not sure where you got those figures from 
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      · 2 days ago
      @Dave That's me dave,everything will go,I've been ill 30 years,it's not going to change, no 4 points in any category, higher rate pip both components which I got on appeal,( mobility part)
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 2 days ago
      @A Same here,my oh works but low pay,he has savings,my cbesa will be gone along with pip and carers allowance,destitution awaits,those savings are gunna get eaten very quickly 
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      · 2 days ago
      @WorkshyLayabout I am not entitled to universal credit as my husband works and earns to much ( not enough for us both) 
      I will lose contribution ESA and standard pip. I will only keep enchanted mobility. I am going to be destitute 

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      · 2 days ago
      @godgivemestrength The idea that this is about getting people back into work is already clearly nonsense, since more than half of all disabled people work, and only 5.7% are unemployed. 
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    · 2 days ago
    Thank you B&W for your legal information with regards the current green paper. We must keep our activities to the green paper and concentrate on the MPs and other bodies like the charities to keep the political pressure up both within and outside the labour party and will have to report the tragic impact these policies will have on people both before and after the law is enacted which will not happen until the bill goes through the 3rd reading and then is announced during the King's speech as well as when the law will take affect. 
    I personally believe that allowing labour members and mps to try and remove Starmer from his leadership of the party is the best way forward and our efforts should go into supporting those within the labour party who will stand up for us. We have to wait to see what the final bill and act will be before we can mount challenges and for now until June concentrate on the green paper and winning more support of the labour left mps
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    · 2 days ago
    Don't give up the fight, friends. My heart sank reading this too, but we mustn't give up. 
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    · 2 days ago
    Thanks for t
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 2 days ago
    Grim.  I think, ultimately, press coverage of extreme poverty (and suicides) will be the only way to shift public opinion, although i have my doubts that this would be reflected in the ballot box. To coin Boris Johnson - whataboutme will the over-riding opinion come the next GE.
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      · 2 days ago
      @Matt
      The austerity was a run up test, to see if people care....  Now they know, they will get away with it... So they think!
      We can't allow that!

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