The DWP have published the results of a survey on the public’s attitudes to a worrying list of new powers it is considering acquiring, allegedly in order to combat fraud, error and debt in the benefits system.

The proposed new powers include:

  • Trained DWP investigators having arrest powers
  • Trained DWP investigators having search and seizure powers
  • Collecting information about where claimants are spending money
  • Collecting banking information as soon as fraud is suspected, rather than waiting for a criminal investigation
  • Asking banks to share information about accounts which look like someone may be committing fraud
  • Government organisations sharing data with DWP about claimants

The DWP research claims to show that a majority of the public were in favour of every one of these measures being introduced.

Even amongst a group of claimants, the DWP claim, more people considered the powers acceptable than found them unacceptable, with the exception of collecting information about where claimants are spending money. 

Given the levels of incompetence, data loss and unaccountability at the DWP, the possibility that staff could arrest claimants and seize their possessions is likely to alarm many readers.

Equally, the idea that the DWP could begin examining bank accounts and looking at how a claimant is spending their money merely because the they suspect fraud is a cause for real concern.

With the department increasingly relying on AI and algorithms they don’t fully understand to detect fraud, the possibility of claimants being wrongfully arrested and facing long and poorly resourced investigations seems real.

No legislation has yet been put forward by the DWP and many will hope that a general election intervenes and that these proposals never become anything more than the wish list of a failing department.

You can read the full details of the DWP consultation on possible new powers here.

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  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 11 months ago
    In breach of Equality Act 2010 Section 13 and Human Rights Act Article 8
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 11 months ago
      @FFS FFS: So would this constitute direct discrimination because a disabled person is being treated differently than others? i.e. can be searched or arrested without the same rights as others because they are disabled and having to claim disability benefits? 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 11 months ago
    They just get worse as do the divisive policies and comments from an increasingly desperate government, clim8ng on to power. They've conducted surveys before in which the questions have made the results pretty much guaranteed to be predetermined and a survey of so few people is risible for giving a view of the majority of the public. The majority of the very small number surveyed and what were the questions and options. 

    They've used similar surveys as justifications before and like others I thought they already have sufficient powers to investigate and arrest. This implies they don't but need them. The levels of incompetence do not engender trust in fairness or, obviously, competence. The additiin of increasing use of AI is gery concerning and it should not be used to make decisions on individuals. 

    Greatly concerning that they want to oversee what people are using money for and all the meadures proposed and being implemented, from a government that has made millions of lives a misery, to say the keast. They consistently protect and favour the wealthy and the recent removal of the cap on bankers' bonuses, says everything you need to know about their priorities and who they care about. The cap wasn't exactly punitive in any case. 

    I also hope none of this happens before the next election when I fervently hope they will be consigned to the long grass for many years and have a good long look at themselves. I also very much hope that the next government will start by protecting the poorest and most vulnerable.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 11 months ago
    I’m in receipt of my pension and pip. My pain levels are reduced in the heat so I spend my extra money on travelling abroad to sunny places in the EU. I don’t drink, smoke, eat out, buy ready meals etc etc. I’m wise with my money in order to afford pain relief for a few weeks of the year. I’m afraid of how this will affect me. 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 11 months ago
      @Maureen Maureen, I totally get that. My chronic pain is so much better when it's warm 
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    · 11 months ago
    It won't take much for them to be able to monitor claimants spending- anyone with loyalty card provides that information to Capita anyway as they run the clubcard and other schemes 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 11 months ago
    Just another way to cut benefit's to people in need when you see the government incompetence during covid and former ministers from top to bottom raking in vast sums when they are guilty of allowing the pandemic to take the lives of people who would still be alive if they had governed the country properly, nobody has questioned how much they saved due to people's who died no longer getting pensions and benefits 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 10 months ago
      @R Bell  They give with one hand and take away with the other. They are now saying that the triple lock will push many state pensioners in to the tax paying bracket.Pensioners should not have to have this worry at the end of  their lives . 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 11 months ago
    Thing is, it won’t just be for those “cheats and chancers”. If this gets passed, it will be put in an Ai algorithm and anyone that has something abnormal happen, maybe you sell some possessions or a car, you will be flagged and penalised.
    It won’t stop there either, before we know it, EVERYONE will have their income, and expenditure monitored 24/7. That way the government can see where else they can tax us.
    The MP’s have absolutely no idea what it’s like not to have enough money to buy a pint of milk. And when average folk are asked about benefits for the disabled or long term sick, they seem to imagine we are all loaded and drive range rovers. You just have to read comments to online  newspaper stories about this kind of story. Im scared enough anyway, after my indefinite award went to a 4 year check after changing to pip. Like im getting any better after being ill for the past 14 years. Were all doomed.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 11 months ago
    smoke and mirrors with them what corrupt deals are this government up to?. Attacking those in need means no one is focused on them . the only people that seem to count in this country are the crooked rice and powerful Shame on them all
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 11 months ago
    Absolutely disgraceful! If this isn’t discrimination I don’t know what is. The majority of people are genuine, honest members of society and yet we are increasingly being branded as thieves, scroungers and everything else unsavoury. We are constantly at risk of scammers due to data breeches (especially by government bodies), and our Rights are being infringed daily.  If I had the choice of my health or PIP/Benefits, I would choose my health, as I am sure most of us would.  
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 11 months ago
      @Wendy Scott Seems like we are all doomed no privacy and now living under a dictatorship. A very scary proposition if that goes through. Nothing to live for wish i was dead and then judgement and division amongst people and nothing is done to stop these cruel things happening
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 11 months ago
    Sample size was only 2100, it needs to be a much larger survey for accurate results. And low and behold 57% who agreed with there Draconian proposals were from affluent areas, only 37% is less well off areas. I totally agree that those committing serious fraud need to be stopped, but it should not be up to DWP staff to investigate. And as in previous comment the real crooks are getting away with everything. Why don't government go after all the big companies like Amazon that don't pay enough tax. 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 8 months ago
      @Fred I wonder why......
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 8 months ago
      @Fred Dickensian
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 11 months ago
      @Carol Peter Yes. Because the poor are always the curtain twitchers. These dekenzien idealists need a taste of what it's like to have poor health and wealth,  see how long they'd last. IDS was once challenged to that but for some unknown reason declined...
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 11 months ago
    oh and they always had the same rights as the police to get access to bank account and utility bills for fraud cases, again not for the ordinary claimant
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 11 months ago
    This fills  me with horror. This country is supposed to be a democratic one. I would expect this more in a dictatorship. What happened to innocent until proven guilty. 

    Yet again it's the population who is the easiest to target. Tell the public that we are all lieing, don't need it, playing the system, working cash in hand, committing fraud and so on.

    Knee jurk reaction from working public, investigation asap stop all money, prove that we are all like the above. Why should I be working all the hours God sends while they are getting money for nothing.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 11 months ago
      @Anntoinette Your right it is a knee jerk reaction but they are now the worst kind of workers who have most of their income supplemented by benefits in Universal credit payments working for companies who don’t have to increase wages due to Universal credit payments with child care covered due to Universal Credit payments it’s like ex smokers being the worst about Smokers, they should try being a carer saving the government millions whilst giving us £76 per week they don’t have to check my bank account I can tell them it all goes on alcohol so I can cope with this rubbish life. 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 11 months ago
    I’m not surprised at all.  This is blatant hypocrisy from a corrupt government who have franchised every department.  Sold out to the highest bidder.  The DWP is just a private company, with incentives/inducements to enrich itself, at the expense of others.  Guaranteed success for every claim that is declined/refused.  I’m in receipt of State Pension, PIP and a government pension.  They’re not a benefit. After the Parliamentary expenses scandal, which is still happening, the MPs of all parties, they’re the ones that should be investigated.  But they protect themselves with “independent” enquiries going through the motions.  Excusing themselves by being unable to comment whilst a matter is under investigation or by saying that a person or company is absent, and therefore unable to defend himself/herself/themselves.  Procrastinating is their self-defence and justification.  AI is nothing new; it has been with us for several years with automated voicemail and switchboards who tell the caller that their call may be recorded for “training purposes” and to listen very carefully as the answers may be on its website, but if not the numbers may have changed since last used.  Then you’re informed your no *** in the queue.  Auto reply emails that might or might not say that they’re a non-response email address with no other obvious address or contact number to reply.  Until you try and then you’ll get another automated response saying that you’re email has not been delivered from something called Mailer-Demon, or if you try to complain about a service e.g. banks you can get up to three automated replies from various offshore websites with the standard apology but then goes onto say, whatever your complaint is it fails to be made on the correct form/within the correct time as per the terms and conditions you agreed to.  Self-driving cars plus “Smart motorways” - a guaranteed recipe for disaster.  As when roundabouts where ruined by placing Automated Traffic Signals.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 11 months ago
    What I am wondering is, when they have collected the information about how a claimant is spending their money, what will they do with that information?  Unless they bring in new legislation specifying exactly what claimants should be spending their money on, I do not see how they can challenge the claimant in any way.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 11 months ago
      @Sasha Also what happens to our data protection act and privacy rulings!! 
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      · 11 months ago
      @fed up By lots of savings you mean over the £6k threshold allowed. Those who are on benefits cannot be officially self employed, it's a shame though because many could be, if the system allowed for a workable transition into self employment, supporting people to be more independent rather than dependant. By that I mean financially supporting people to move away from benefits on a gradual basis where appropriate and viable. 

      A person can however sell their own possessions as long as it's within limits of the £6k. Many people on benefits are actually in huge debt, and far too many in fuel debt which to my mind indicates the UK government is neglecting to protect their citizens from harm. To use the term living within their means is quite frankly an insult to people who have little money to live on, likely affording just the basics, and those forced to use food banks, many in work having to claim the inhumane inadequate so called, universal credit. 
      People dependant on state support for whatever reason, deserve to live a decent life with some of the normal day to day treats and enjoyments that are essential to a more equal and stable society, as much as anyone else. 
      It's not like they are swanning off to Barbados for a jolly, unless they are really very good at getting past the almost watertight system that is now in place. 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 11 months ago
      @Sasha its all about if someone gets lots of money outwith their benefit and they can prove this by checking their account for spending beyond their means ie fraud cases , someone with lots of savings undeclared sell employment, illegal earnings 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 11 months ago
    It's another case of the real crooks pointing the finger in the opposite direction, with the full backing of the tax-dodging press, so everyone else slowly falls for it. The world is watching Britain and its relentless, abhorrent, treatment of its most vulnerable citizens. 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 11 months ago
    Trigger warning.



    And of course, the added stress of this is really going to help us get healthier & fit for work isn't it?! I still haven't recovered from the stress of my PIP reassessment that happened TEN MONTHS AGO! Now I have this to worry about! I'm feeling sick as I type this!

    When are they going to realise that their processes damage us further emotionally & therefore physically too?!

    I worked so hard for years but my mind & my body could no longer cope with a series of awful events. Eventually they all took a toll on my health & now I'm housebound for the majority of the year. 

    I didn't choose this. This is not the life I wanted. I have wanted to end my life so many times because my low quality of life & my chronic pain can be so unbearable. Also at those times when the DWP have put me through assessments/reassessments. Yet at the same time I'm terrified of dying, knowing that my final years have been spent so depressed & living this way.

    I cannot believe for one second that the majority of people would be happy with what they are saying! Did they ask healthy, working people? Or just each other?!

    Love & hugs to everyone. Stay strong xx


    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 11 months ago
      @AAC Love and hugs to you. Your words are pertinent and relatable. I suffer from chronic pain and severe depression too. Filling in forms and proving your innocence is too much hard work for us ill or otherwise disabled people to face! 
      Be as well as you can be. You and your voice matter. x x x
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 11 months ago
      @AAC Thank you really appreciate you expressing what so many of us feel.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 11 months ago
      @The Dog Mother I've had exactly the same experience too. I've been fighting to keep my pip now every year for the last 10 years .    Cannot go on much longer.  I am expecting to go to bed one night and not wake up next day.... At least then I'll have some peace... !! Mentally and physically getting worse every year, I am 62 next January...
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 11 months ago
      @AAC Same. Had a mental lapse after mine last sept.Its bringing us down further and further. After indefinite dla then having to fight three times to get pip back and winning at tribunals then mr. Plus esa assessments that stated I was unable to work after extensive investigations, so much medical evidence etc. I'm done. My health's going south with more and more serious and potentially life threatening conditions.  It destroys my soul. I use to feel so guilty that I couldn't work. Not any more. Not if I was to drag myself along the floor.And many days that's the position I'm in just getting by daily.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 11 months ago
    I am appalled, the most vulnerable in our society are being targeted by DWP . It is utterly shameful that these proposed measures were even considered . So, we are dealing with " fascists" . I would like to see their polling reports , if they exist . Most people are unaware of the difficulties disabled folk live with,unless it's part of your life you won't know. 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 11 months ago
    this is not for ordinary claimants or from ordinary member of staff this is for highly trained fraud staff that deal with serious crime or high levels of fraud from a customer. do you not all want the chancers or those who are  down rights cheats who spoil it for honest people  to be stopped  and these cases take a long time to investigate and go through all kinds of checks so they are not poorly investigated or dealt with by AI
    So instead on slagging all the staff what about the chancers cheats and those who  think they are entitled to it all !!!!
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 11 months ago
      @fed up It is for ordinary claimants. Everyone on UC is to have their bank account checked monthly
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 11 months ago
      @Hetty. True, well said.... It's the 1% disgustingly rich, that need to be looked at....!!!!  The 'Billionaires' who have so much money , it will never be spent in their lifetime.... 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 11 months ago
      @fed up Do you really think it will stop at the suspected/known cheaters? It won’t, everyone will be monitored by an ai algorithm. The same ai will then be given the power to sanction, cut benefits, deny appeals… the list goes on. 
      Maybe you fall out with a neighbour, they know about this system and call saying “fed up is also working” or “fed up has £10k buried in the garden” the ai will instantly do a deep dive into your spending and know you have haemorrhoids , because you bought Anusol last week. That is just the beginning.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 11 months ago
      @fed up Benefits fraud is really not widespread. However, tax evasion by the rich is off the scale and fraud and corruption at high office is an absolute disgrace. 
      It's more likely that there are many cases where those who would be entitled to benefits don't actually make a claim either through a sense of shame, or, because they don't know what they are entitled to. 
      It's a quagmire for those who do apply for benefits and people are often treated with little respect, before even receiving a penny. People are even sanctioned for missing the bus to an appointment thereby being a few minutes late, then they actually have their money reduced or stopped as punishment. 
      The UN have just informed the UK government that they are in breach of international laws on human rights in plunging millions of their own people including children, into destitution. Destitution, not poverty, much much worse. 
      A few who can navigate the benefits system so as to actually defraud it and goodness knows how, is very minimal and the demonisation of people in dire need of state support just to get by for whatever reason, is quite simply, criminal. 
      The Uk is rich, and any money spent on detecting fraud should be aimed at the massive tax evasion at the top of the ladder! 

    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 11 months ago
      @fed up So who decides a legitamate claimant or not ? How about the fraudsters in HOC . They gave millions of our money to their mates during covid . Mickey mouse companies set up days before they got their handouts. Never made ppe before or since. Or the company to ship goods across the channel that didn't actually have any ships????. Or Boris's girlfriend who  was American given money fir her company £250,000?? Our Money . So get this in perspective , vast majority of claimants are not fraudsters.  This witch hunt is shameful. 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 11 months ago
    I've always said it's a later day Stassi but karma is coming and I see the courts getting involved.. Could be a breach of human rights.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 11 months ago
      @Hetty. Now it’s clear why the uk are one of the only countries not to bring an AI governance act in to play when the EU is set to have strict stipulations about the use of AI.. I assumed well sorry I believed what they said and it was for business growth in the UK .. but wow i suddenly see this in a whole new light .. it really will not end here and with no legislative measures for AI .. well they can snoop on everyone not just these people on benefits 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 11 months ago
      @Sandra Bowes-Rennox Agree this has to be agreed by parliament so this should squashed through human rights 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 11 months ago
      @Sandra Bowes-Rennox It may indeed breach human rights that would need to be looked into by some lawyers. 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 11 months ago
    What kind of society are we becoming? Why restrict snooping to claimants on sickness benefit when they could investigate anyone receiving taxpayers money. You get family allowance? Our investigations show you didn’t buy any nappies but went to bingo instead. Far fetched and ludicrous I know, but this shower of nasty incompetents started it. I refuse to believe the majority of the public supported this cruel measure, unless the sample poll was taken from Mail readers in the Home Counties. It’s frightening just what this vicious government could do to the country before they’re turfed out for years to come
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 10 months ago
      @Sheila Sunak will be gone soon.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 11 months ago
      @Sheila As a fellow disabled person reading this thread, this comment caught my attention. I have a Russian wife, worked in our oil industry, lived and travelled there over many years. When were you last there?
      If by "living like the Russians" you mean happy and not broke, looked after by the state, not indoctrinated and have free speech then yes you'd be correct.

      However I've a feeling that's not what you meant. I'd suggest you stop watching the BBC or reading the guardian. 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 11 months ago
      @Carol K This government want a dictatorship so they can rule and take over and eventually we will be living like the Russians with Sunak becoming Putin 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 11 months ago
      @Grahame Wilkinson It’s like 1984 big brother is watching you !!! It’s absurd
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 11 months ago
      @Akire Yes, we will have to start using the brown envelopes our grandparents did, each one marked food, bills, etc.  No online buying nothing to show on your bank statement. Agree with a Judge giving a warrant to search a bank account if there is suspected fraud but leave the minions alone 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 11 months ago
    No survey of anything less than the entire population could legitimately yield any evidence that "a majority of the public were in favour..." of anything. 
    It's essential to debunk that claim by identifying how few people were actually consulted about these proposals and how those few were chosen for that purpose. Had anyone here ever heard of this survey before B&W reported this?
    This is an offensively self-serving abuse of statistics and should not be allowed to go unchallenged by as many people as can find the means of doing so and the energy to raise objections.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 11 months ago
      @DianaW The report admits that the survey was only completed by 2,127 people. That's a pitifully tiny number and cannot legitimately be termed "the public".
      Moreover, only "50% of respondents said they felt positive overall about the new powers described in the survey". That's not a majority; at best, it's half the number who responded to that part of the survey. "21% of respondents felt negatively about the new powers and 25% reported that they felt neutral" - so at least 4% didn't comment at all.

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